Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Best VST for TD-50 Capabilities in Cubase 10

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Best VST for TD-50 Capabilities in Cubase 10

    Hello,
    I'm sure this general question will lead to a lot of opinions so let me try to clarify. Is there a VST that will utilize the extra articulations of the TD-50 which users generally feel has better sounds than the TD-50 and will work in Cubase 10?

    I'm new to edrums and bought a TD-30 Franken-kit that came with 4 toms, 5 cymbals and VH-13 hats. I bought the TD-50 upgrade package with the module, snare and ride. I also upgraded the kick to the KD-140. I've been working on learning the module sound capabilities and how to record and render MIDI in Cubase 10. Before knowing anything, I also bought EZDrummer 2 and Groove Agent 4. I had trouble trying to get GA 4 to work and Steinberg said it was really made for keyboards, not edrums and it couldn't handle extra articulations like the 5 hat notes generated by the VH-13's. So, that option is probably out.

    I tried EZDrummer 2 a year ago, couldn't figure it out and gave up until retrying it again now. I remember I ran into limitations with it too but couldn't remember what they were. Talking with Roland, they said they couldn't say what VST's would work best with the advanced capabilities of the TD-50. They recommend users experiment. I believe the limitations with EZDrummer 2 are:

    -Two zone cymbals that allow 3 sounds (bow, edge, choke) can only play the edge and choke in EZD2
    -I'm not sure yet, but I think the TD-50 ride, snare and hats may have too many articulations to handle too.
    -I used the Roland map that came with EZD2 and it mostly worked however, two of my cymbals trigger the EZD2 tom 3 and two cymbals from EZD2 are not triggered by the TD-50 yet. The TD-50 tom 3 is not triggered by my physical toms. I think this may be due to using Aux for the cymbals.
    -EZD2 allows a user to change which tom is assigned to a tom or cymbal to a cymbal but Sweetwater says it cannot be done and I probably need Superior Drummer.
    -Even after a factory reset, MIDI notes from the TD-50 to Cubase are different by an octave. I saw someone else post about this but not the solution. Sweetwater dialed in my screen and saw the same thing. We also found changing the Cubase drum map would sometimes fix the issue and sometimes have no impact. I'm going to make a separate post about this point.

    I like the Roland artist kits better than the standard kits but I like EZD2 samples better than all Roland samples. I've not used or researched other VST's yet.

    It seems like when I researched this before, I found people would normally use a TD-50 kit to play live, because it felt better than other edrums, but use a VST to record better samples and try to get the latency as low as possible. So it seems a person cannot have both the playing realism of the TD-50 AND high quality samples when using the TD-50 for recording?

    So here's the question again, is there a VST that will utilize the extra articulations of the TD-50 which users generally feel has better sounds than the TD-50 and will work in Cubase 10?

    Thanks much for any help!
    TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

  • #2
    SD3 the big brother of ezdrummer is the closest you will get to software wise with positional sensing as well as crash and tip on cymbals. Great muting and huge possibilities. Be warned though you need to get under the hood and learn how to use it.

    by the way I made this answer simple as Iím sure there will be many other replies advising you wonít get low latency and that the td50 sounds are good enough. From what you asked SD3 is the most sophisticated vst with the most features likely to be able to use the midi output of a td50
    Last edited by mkok; 03-29-19, 04:36 PM.
    Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

    Comment


    • #3
      if i owned a TD50 i would only trigger toms and snares.. (with vst) ..i think the TD50 cymbals sound great..
      so, ..i would record the audio of hi-hat, ride and cymbals, and kick from TD50..
      - i never record midi - but you could substitute sounds from toms and snare.. or record midi of those ..
      the end mix should sound great.. best of both worlds .. vst and modelled cosm ..
      | Diy Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

      Comment


      • #4
        Just record the midi to Superior 3. You could always blend in module sounds if you want.

        Comment


        • #5
          If it's for recording, I would use all sound from vst only, articulation depend on vst, BFD\SD3 have more, but articulation is based on zone triggering and midi assignment, there is max limitation from module, but most important, sound from vst there is gap difference on sound fluidity, dynamic,depth, room, bleed, 0 machine gun, there is even several artist sampled kit on vst capture 95% identical sound. The only problem is all to configure, and get it all perfect right, performance, feel. hihat could be problematic, but that depend on vst.
          Last edited by Chris K; 03-31-19, 04:58 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you all for your input!
            TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

            Comment


            • #7
              I've played around with dialing in a Roland kit and may have something decent for recording where I will not use a VST for now. To experiment, I've also created a drum map in Cubase 10 for EZD2. I used the EZD2 Roland map and had to tweak a tom and a few cymbals.

              I'm fuzzy on understanding how positional sensors trigger different samples. For example, if I recorded MIDI from my TD50, while monitoring my TD50 for low latency, then I felt a VST had better samples, I would add a EZD2 VST track in Cubase and copy the recorded MIDI and paste it (or just move it) to the EZD2 track.

              I see in the drum map, Cubase has recorded MIDI notes all on the D1 snare head note. But the EZD2 map, for example, has several more snare head samples on different musical notes which will not be triggered (I think).

              When I render using EZD2, will it somehow know for every D1 note, it needs to randomly pick one of the snare head samples so it sounds more dynamic and less like a machine gun?

              I think I understand the TD-50 has more sensors on the snare (for example) than other drums, and when you hit, each sensor has a different amount of vibration so it knows which sample to trigger for the right tone. I think this is how it knows to have an outside versus inside head strike and when to trigger rimshots and whether the rimshots is a lot of stick, little stick and center or edge. If I understand that correctly, I'm confused how one D1 midi note from the TD-50 can be accurately translated to a VST to get the same type of rimshot, for example?

              It feels like I would have to either manually move the recorded MIDI notes from D1 to the other snare head notes, or somehow VST's have a hierarchy where it knows there is a "parent" note to trigger a snare head, like D1 and then there are "child" notes like the other 4 samples of snare head hits so the VST can randomly pick one of the 5 total samples for snare head hits?

              Can anyone tell me if I understand correctly and perhaps fill in gaps I have? Thanks in advance!!
              TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

              Comment


              • #8
                So there is only one note sent. The sample played depends on the value of continuous controller information. I canít remember which one and Iím not in front of my studio pc. SD3 uses a set of samples for different velocities which it round robins them so you donít get machine gunning. Again it only takes a single note input even if it is repeated. Iím not sure how the td50 send rim. I know the td30 sends a separate midi number for rim.
                Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The standard CC channel for sending snare center->edge position is 16.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you both! That's the "ah-ha moment" I was looking for.
                    TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ohnow View Post
                      Thank you both! That's the "ah-ha moment" I was looking for.
                      Iím not sure that EZD2 makes use of positional sensing capabilities, though, so you still might want to look into a more advanced VST to get all you can from the TD50. Since you already have EZD, I would crossgrade to SD3. You could also consider Addictive Drums 2, which does utilize positional sensing data for the snare and ride.
                      Meet The Stewards!
                      https://www.facebook.com/Stewards.music/
                      https://open.spotify.com/artist/4DkksGVF7ujfj7KupB6wdD
                      https://www.deezer.com/us/artist/51527662

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I recorded MIDI from the TD50, which I played live. I copied/pasted the MIDI to a EZD2 vst track in Cubase and set-up the mapping as mentioned above. All of the sounds sound the same as if it's not using the CC data as mentioned above to trigger different samples in a random way. Is there a step I missed?

                        I'm going to try recording MIDI directly to the EZD2 VST track with different hits to the snare, for example, but my latency is a bit too high to play live so I think I'll have to monitor with the TD50.

                        I'm reading the Superior D 3 manual to understand it before buying it but I thought it might be helpful to try to understand the question in this post anyway.
                        TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I donít know about ezdrummer. I was talking about SD3. So for the drums I wouldnít expect to hear a great difference in general playing unless you hit quite and then loud. The time you can really tell is with fast rolls where you get the machine gun effect. Do you mean you are getting the same sound on the hi-hat?
                          Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ohnow View Post
                            I recorded MIDI from the TD50, which I played live. I copied/pasted the MIDI to a EZD2 vst track in Cubase and set-up the mapping as mentioned above. All of the sounds sound the same as if it's not using the CC data as mentioned above to trigger different samples in a random way. Is there a step I missed?

                            I'm going to try recording MIDI directly to the EZD2 VST track with different hits to the snare, for example, but my latency is a bit too high to play live so I think I'll have to monitor with the TD50.

                            I'm reading the Superior D 3 manual to understand it before buying it but I thought it might be helpful to try to understand the question in this post anyway.
                            Right - see my post directly above yours. I don't believe that EZD2 supports positional sensing.

                            However, as mkok says, it's also not entirely clear what your issue is when you say you're not getting it "to trigger different samples in a random way." Do you mean you're getting the same exact snare sound no matter the velocity of your strike? Or do you mean, as I've been assuming, that the EZD2 samples are not tracking your playing across head to edge? I've been assuming you mean the latter, which, again, is a matter of positional sensing--a functionality that your module has, but that EZD2 does not.

                            Still, you should be able to get head, rimshot, and cross-stick with EZD2. Is that the case? If not, then there may be a calibration/mapping issue. If so, then you're on the right track, and I'd advise you to continue your research on VSTs that support positional sensing, so that you can ultimately get not just head and rim triggers but also the load of samples in between (and greater variety in rimshots, etc.).

                            One last thought - you could download the Addictive Drums 2 demo and explore. It is limited to kick, snare, hat, and crash (I think), but this would allow you to audition its positional sensing capabilities for the snare, which would at least give you a sense of how your TD50 snare experience can translate to VSTs.
                            Meet The Stewards!
                            https://www.facebook.com/Stewards.music/
                            https://open.spotify.com/artist/4DkksGVF7ujfj7KupB6wdD
                            https://www.deezer.com/us/artist/51527662

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mkok View Post
                              Do you mean you are getting the same sound on the hi-hat?
                              Yeah, it's the exact same sound and velocity.

                              TD-50, KD-140, CY-18DR, CY-12R/C, CY-14C (2), CY-14C, PD-140DS, PDX-100 (2), PD-128 (2), DW5000 Accel Dble Kick, Gibralter Oversized Motorcycle Seat w/Backrest, DW PDP PGHH882, Tama Roadpro Snare Stand, Cubase 10 Pro, Steinberg UR44, Groove Agent 4, EZDrummer 2, Superior Drummer 3

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X