Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Roland TD-50 and SSD5 (VST Discussion)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Roland TD-50 and SSD5 (VST Discussion)

    This was in my Youtube feed this morning. Enjoy!

    ATV aDrums, TD-50, aD5, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

  • #2
    Better than some of the other videos as he did play the toms a bit slower at times so you get time to listen to the tone. I still think the SSD toms are similar and not what Iím looking for. I would also miss PS which I find gives even more sense of realism. There is no tip playing on the crash cymbals either so you canít do those delicate touches on the top of the cymbals. All of those things are techniques I use on my real drum kit. The only vst that comes close is SD3 in this respect and the fantastic range of toms it has.
    Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

    Comment


    • #3
      I have a TD-50 and a powerful Mac because of the type of work I do. 8 core 4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 processor and 64 GB of RAM (all of which will seem measly soon enough) and only if you are at 96 kHz at a 64 buffer with an outrageously fast sound card and a top tier UA host are you going to get even close to a satisfying experience triggering SSD5 and even then you will get clicks and pops when you play snare and double kick together, or if you stack snares and kicks. If you try a 32 buffer and experience popping and clicking or more likely horrible distortion, and you will at 96 kHz, you will be sad when you must return to the 64 buffer. It will feel sluggish. 44.1 or 48 at a 32 buffer has more latency than HD settings so that's a no go.

      You also have to reduce the settings on SSD5 to normal resampling rate and medium detail or you're clicking and popping like corn. This guy in the drum-tec videos can play Sovereign coffee cans and make it look like drumming is easy. I suspect he is not getting the satisfaction he gets from a Mimic or TD-50 module. If higher buffer settings and high latency doesn't bother you then you're probably ok triggering SSD5 and the sounds are good no question. The Blackbird library is great. IMO there is always a ghostly feeling to playing VST/AU's and if the program quits on you while playing you may never want to trigger a VST again. I have been raving about triggering VST's in many posts but the rave has whittled down to a whine and an occasional whimper because it just doesn't cut it. It's exciting for a while, like hacking into a forbidden universe of multisample drums and gorgeous graphics but ultimately fails.

      The competition for SSD5 is SD3. I think SD3 is an amazing program but in the end I am endlessly tweaking and marveling at the features and hitting rim shots and stacking snares but when it comes to straight ahead playing drums it doesn't trigger all that well, there is intense hot spotting with PS on toms and again unless you are well set up with a computer rig that far exceeds the value of several modules it is like playing drums in a bowl of porridge. And at it's e drum best SD3 lacks high velocity hits from the actual drummers who performed on the sessions so that whacking the holy heck out of a Tom gets you merely a higher mid-range articulation rather than a fulfilling punch/smack/thwack.

      VST's and AU's excel as tools for programming drums, and are designed for keyboardists and guitarists, not drummers. I have been making a living writing tracks for television for the past 15 years and the high end programs like SSD5 are a god send for composers. As a drummer I am in the minority of composers/producers for TV, and while the standards for my compositions are set high by television producers, they usually wind up on a terrible reality show.

      So the competition is fierce and the fight for realistic samples ongoing. SSD5 is like the advent of the East West Symphonic Gold Orchestra that allowed composers the ability to write and produce Modern Orchestra tracks and compete with real strings and nail gigs because they can work cheaper, faster and still deliver "the sound". Default settings on SSD5 are for a composer/producer needing to program a verse/chorus for his or her composition at an extremely high buffer size and wow a producer by the quality of his or her drum sound. Not for an e drummer to play at low buffer settings. Get your VEX packs and get down with your module.
      Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-21-19, 02:59 AM. Reason: Typo

      Comment


      • #4
        ďI have a TD-50 and a powerful Mac because of the type of work I do. 8 core 4.2 GHz Intel Core i7 processor and 64 GB of RAM (all of which will seem measly soon enough) and only if you are at 96 kHz at a 64 buffer with an outrageously fast sound card and a top tier UA host are you going to get even close to a satisfying experience triggering SSD5 and even then you will get clicks and pops when you play snare and double kick together, or if you stack snares and kicks. If you try a 32 buffer and experience popping and clicking or more likely horrible distortion, and you will at 96 kHz, you will be sad when you must return to the 64 buffer. It will feel sluggish. 44.1 or 48 at a 32 buffer has more latency than HD settings so that's a no goĒ

        above is is a quote but I managed to delete the quotes and didnít try again

        I really do not see the problem you are describing running SSD5 or SD3. The latency reporting is not always correct and 64 buffers on one machine is not the same as another. I donít get clicks or pops and do not get the sluggish feel. If it wasnít possible to trigger successful in real time there would be no call for these. I really must disagree with what you are saying as a generalisation. It may be true for you but not for everyone
        Last edited by mkok; 02-21-19, 03:42 AM.
        Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

        Comment


        • #5
          My wish would be pearl getting it together with Toontrack (canít see this every happening) If they did Iíd have the mimic in a flash and even consider giging with it. I know you can get the sounds onto the 2box but I find the amount of trigger inputs really limiting and I wouldnít want to go down the 2 module route. I tried that in the past and didnít like it.
          Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mkok View Post
            ď if it wasnít possible to trigger successful in real time there would be no call for these. I really must disagree with what you are saying as a generalisation. It may be true for you but not for everyone
            Dear MKOK...Unfortunately it is true for everyone including St. Paul if He were to float to earth and get on the fastest rig available, or for Merlin if he was forced to abandon his wand and go to the Apple store and spend 25k. You can't trigger in actual real time any VST which I will explain.

            And I completely disagree, the minority of users are e drummers with SSD5. There is an ENORMOUS demand for SSD5 by guitar players, producers, keyboard players, anyone who doesn't play drums and is a composer in the digital domain wants to get their hands on this product. It is a tool for non drummers to get great drum performances into their mix. e drummers are the minority in using this program professionally. As far as hobbyists there may be a ratio of drummers that is more substantial but I doubt even that. I wouldn't have a job if I wasn't working with the lowest latency possible, and I will admit I'm very sensitive to it so it may be more of an issue that you are not feeling the lag as I am and you are content and I'm not trying to take that away from you.

            But don't avoid the science. The round trip from your module- Analogue to Digital conversion and then Digital to Analogue return to your phones or speakers, plus the slow speed of MIDI 5 pin or even USB 2.0 is going to immediately add 5-7 ms to your latency. Only with the most expensive gear available, which unfortunately I must purchase to stay in the TV music game, will you get lower latency speeds. And I'm being generous saying 5-7, it could be much higher with a slower Audio Interface and OS. That's just a factoid. It is not subjective.

            The latency your sound card reports isn't even close to the true latency you experience firing a VST. "Real Time" is a beautifully tricky term for the realistic time of an inherent latency laden process. It's a term kind of like "may help reduce the risk of..." True zero-latency monitoring is an entirely analogue domain monitoring path from analogue input direct to analogue monitoring output -- not only avoiding the OS and VST programs, but the converters as well. There is no way you can achieve zero-latency if you go through converters and especially if you are firing a high CPU intensive virtual instrument.
            Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-21-19, 12:32 PM. Reason: Typo

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mkok View Post
              My wish would be pearl getting it together with Toontrack
              That would be fantastic I agree, but the Slate library is pretty phenomenal as is and even better with VEX packs. I'm good with Mimic without another library. Especially with new sounds coming out as Slate and VEX continue to update. The infamous multisample editor may make your wish come true without the need for a partnership between Toontrack and Mimic, we'll have to wait and see.

              Comment


              • #8
                Plenty of us are happy playing vst instruments so it really doesnít matter what numbers you put out there. If you are unhappy fair enough but what my ears hear and others works for us so I have to disagree with you. I also donít think the SSD5 sounds come close to SD3 or SD2. They are far too samey and itís not only me who thinks this. Anyway we all have different opinions. Iím not stating my opinion as facts. Just my opinion. Iíll say no more on either subject as anything said against the mimic seems to be frowned upon on this forum.
                Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

                Comment


                • #9
                  (This post left during off-topic cleansing for subsequent on-topic posts)

                  All I'll add to this convo is that I see most people that say Product A doesn't sound best against Product B are the same people that a) don't own Product A, or b) still don't recognize the fact that EVERY module on the market has to be modeled/mixed by the drummer.

                  VSTs come with kits that have already had all this done, AND are using higher quality plugins to achieve it. In the module industry, R&D simply does not spend time creating kits to this level. I know this for an absolute fact. Default kits in modules are generally kits designed during testing by R&D team members or artists asked to test the product before release. This is the fact with EVERY module on the market. Hell, you can look at any kit on any module and see for your own eyes they enable/mix hardly any of the onboard features. Nine times out of ten, the instruments are barely touched when it comes to processing. It's just a fact. Hell, that's the same case with the Mimic. Just look at a default kit. It's bare-bones when it comes to processing.

                  If you're a Product A guy, great!

                  If you're a Product B guy, great!

                  If you're one of those posting in the opposite topics just to put the other down because you think your Product is better... not so great.
                  Alan
                  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  website | youtube | facebook | group | newsletter | twitter | message
                  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I own product A and B as well as C and D in this scenario and have been triggering SSD5 with a TD-50 pretty much the day SSD5 became available as a download. I agree there is almost an obligation for mixing a module by the drummer and, I would add, a third party sound designer is a welcome asset and my go to choice for making my module sound as good as it can be. The first set of kits that came with the TD-50 were a big disappointment for me. Not so with the Mimic but I am still happy about third party sound design and new kits. I was a long time advocate of triggering VST's and now I'm not. I feel the inherent latency and it makes me sad re: SD3 and SSD5 as I enjoyed the hell out of the great sounds.
                    - MKOK you must continue to enjoy firing VST's and I can tell you already feel free to disregard everything I said, so please do.
                    Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-21-19, 08:43 PM. Reason: typo

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have a TD-50 and use an old 2012 MacBook Pro i7 with 8gb. The only upgrade I did was change the internal hard drive to a 500gb SSD. I have no issue running SD3 or the trial version of SSD5. I have no noticeable latency and the playing experience is very satisfying. I would hate for someone to be discourage by Howstamychi comments and think they need all that high end equipment just to trigger a VST successfully.
                      ATV aDrums, TD-50, aD5, Superior Drummer 3.0, Roland SPD-SX, Tama & DW Hardware.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chance27 View Post
                        I have a TD-50 and use an old 2012 MacBook Pro i7 with 8gb. The only upgrade I did was change the internal hard drive to a 500gb SSD. I have no issue running SD3 or the trial version of SSD5. I have no noticeable latency and the playing experience is very satisfying. I would hate for someone to be discourage by Howstamychi comments and think they need all that high end equipment just to trigger a VST successfully.
                        starting around 2013 I used a td15/sd2 combo with using only the td usb midi connection on a 2006 or 7ish pc running windows 7 with 8 gig of ram and I had no noticeable latency and I loved it. I upgraded to windows 10 on the same pc around 2012 and had no issues until the pc really started dying around 2016. I wound up with a very good deal on a 2014 MacBook pro and again no issues with latency, even when I upgraded to SD3 and it got even better. (SD3 sounds awesome!). If you get noticeable latency with today's cheap options at computer it's your own fault.

                        all that being said... I believe that the Mimic pro rules, and everything else drools.
                        Noble & Cooley acoustics. Paiste cymbals.
                        Mimic Pro, SPD SX, SPD30, SD3

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chance27 View Post
                          I have a TD-50 and use an old 2012 MacBook Pro i7 with 8gb. The only upgrade I did was change the internal hard drive to a 500gb SSD. I have no issue running SD3 or the trial version of SSD5. I have no noticeable latency and the playing experience is very satisfying. I would hate for someone to be discourage by Howstamychi comments and think they need all that high end equipment just to trigger a VST successfully.
                          Oh boy I would notice the latency in that set up. I'd rather people make up their own minds, I'm just offering up my experience. Don't worry about all the poor folks who would be discouraged by my words, no one listens to me anyway But I stand behind every word I said.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Roving Drummer View Post

                            starting around 2013 I used a td15/sd2 combo with using only the td usb midi connection on a 2006 or 7ish pc running windows 7 with 8 gig of ram and I had no noticeable latency and I loved it. I upgraded to windows 10 on the same pc around 2012 and had no issues until the pc really started dying around 2016. I wound up with a very good deal on a 2014 MacBook pro and again no issues with latency, even when I upgraded to SD3 and it got even better. (SD3 sounds awesome!). If you get noticeable latency with today's cheap options at computer it's your own fault.

                            all that being said... I believe that the Mimic pro rules, and everything else drools.
                            You guys keep saying noticeable latency. I think that's where we part ways. I'd notice it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Back to topic, this combination of TD-50 and SSD5 presents very well in the drum-tec video so all is well.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X