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  • Mimic Pro Vs Real Time AU Host Running SSD5

    Is it worth buying the Mimic Pro module as opposed to SSD5 and why? Thanks so much.
    Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-07-19, 03:32 PM. Reason: Typo

  • #2
    You could always try SSD5 first [maybe the free kit]. I have both. The Mimic has a different hi hat algorithm and it plays smoother for me. SSD5 can be close depending on how you set it. I have not been able to get Superior 3 or SSD5 to play as smoothly as the built in Mimic sounds. Is it for recording only?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Peter Warren View Post
      You could always try SSD5 first [maybe the free kit]. I have both. The Mimic has a different hi hat algorithm and it plays smoother for me. SSD5 can be close depending on how you set it. I have not been able to get Superior 3 or SSD5 to play as smoothly as the built in Mimic sounds. Is it for recording only?
      Thanks Peter it is for playing and recording. Looking for the best feel in a hybrid e kit I suppose, in many ways as you know the TD-50 is lacking. But I still love much of what it has to offer. It would be nice to unhook from the AU world and use two modules. I also like what VEX has to offer and it seems like the updates keep coming.

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      • #4
        Personally, my experience (as a Mimic owner and PC entrusiast who is a technician professionally) has been that ANY VST performs worse than any hardware unless you have the absolute best case setup in a PC and soundcard combo to trigger VSTs where they feel as good. I haven't had such a setup - and I run at least decent hardware - currently an i5 (4th gen) with 16gb of RAM and a Presonus Studio 1824 running at "effectively" 5ms or so of latency. I still prefer hardware, period.

        The Mimic fits right in the middle. I'm sure that there are far more options when running the VST versions and they might be useful to some, but for me, the Mimic fits the in-between bill where its sounds are "as good" (subjective) as the VSTs I would choose and the performance is better than what I've been able to achieve in VST. It's very pleasing to play something that sounds SO real while still having fantastic feedback.

        If I had a current gen running a Thunderbolt interface with a Presonus Quantum soundcard running at sub-1ms latency, I'd probably be in a similar place, but I don't and you are talking a pretty decent amount of money to get that - and you couldn't really gig with it if that's your goal. Personally, I only play at home, by myself, and I still have opted for the Mimic Route.

        Hope that input is worth something to you!
        My Updated Website: https://blades.technology

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Blades View Post
          Personally, my experience (as a Mimic owner and PC entrusiast who is a technician professionally) has been that ANY VST performs worse than any hardware unless you have the absolute best case setup in a PC and soundcard combo to trigger VSTs where they feel as good. I haven't had such a setup - and I run at least decent hardware - currently an i5 (4th gen) with 16gb of RAM and a Presonus Studio 1824 running at "effectively" 5ms or so of latency. I still prefer hardware, period.

          The Mimic fits right in the middle. I'm sure that there are far more options when running the VST versions and they might be useful to some, but for me, the Mimic fits the in-between bill where its sounds are "as good" (subjective) as the VSTs I would choose and the performance is better than what I've been able to achieve in VST. It's very pleasing to play something that sounds SO real while still having fantastic feedback.

          If I had a current gen running a Thunderbolt interface with a Presonus Quantum soundcard running at sub-1ms latency, I'd probably be in a similar place, but I don't and you are talking a pretty decent amount of money to get that - and you couldn't really gig with it if that's your goal. Personally, I only play at home, by myself, and I still have opted for the Mimic Route.

          Hope that input is worth something to you!
          That input is worth a great deal. That's x 2 for the Mimic route. I've seen your setup it's pretty spectacular, thanks again for the feedback.

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          • #6
            pretty spectacular
            I like that! Thanks. It's a long-time affair to get here, so seriously, glad you think it's cool!
            My Updated Website: https://blades.technology

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            • #7
              It isn't just the sounds in the mimic, it is the interface. I just moved up to a Mimic from a TD-20 and really like it so far. I was using the TD-20 to trigger SSD 4/5 and Superior 3 using a Thunderbolt interface at low latency. I'm sticking with the Mimic so I can unplug from the computer without having to sacrifice sound quality. But also, setting up the velocity and cross talk settings is so simple and I really like the touch screen interface for the most part. Not to mention loading up files in the Mimic to play along too without having to set up your computer. Its convenience factor for even just practicing makes it worth it to me.

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              • #8
                X's 3 for the Mimic route. If you can swing it pricewise, it's well worth it.
                Noble & Cooley acoustics. Paiste cymbals.
                Mimic Pro, SPD SX, SPD30, SD3

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                • #9
                  Thanks so much for the replies. I think I can swing it at this point. I love the idea of running it through the TD-50 or vice versa, triggering elements of both and using headphones. Infinitesimal inkling of being able to perform live.

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                  • #10
                    no one really misses positional sensing and the digital ride and snare when triggering vsts?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Precisionguided View Post
                      no one really misses positional sensing and the digital ride and snare when triggering vsts?
                      SD3 is the only VST/AU that supports positional sensing and arguably works best with a TD-50 with the 3 zone ride and snare. I plan on still using PS with TD-50 and TD-50 to SD3. I am still using 4 auxiliary pads and digital ride from the 50. I'd be using 3 toms and kick and 2 crashes and ride with Mimic as direct triggers and hoping the digital snare MIDI into Mimic on it's own MIDI channel works as a trigger. The goal and the trick will be to successfully blend the snares otherwise I'd default to the Mimic snares using an ATV trigger and use the Roland as a side snare.

                      I've discovered, and it's in the manual, that truly you must turn MIDI local to OFF when triggering VST's or AU's. So, using TD-50 as the example although it applies to every module- MIDI local set to off on TD-50, MIDI out from TD-50 to SD3 so there is direct triggering of pads to SD3 sounds, NOT after they've already triggered TD-50 internally with local on. Then midi back to the TD-50. Fortunately I have an Alyseum U3-88c MIDI Interface which can send and receive midi simultaneously and is very fast and jitter free using USB3 super speed which prioritizes MIDI.

                      Unfortunately this process of turning local MIDI off makes you lose the direct USB digital data transfer between ride and snare with TD-50 module because the MIDI return is just regular midi cc data. And do understand the digital goodness of the TD-50 snare and ride do not translate to SD3, they work well with positional sensing for SD3 but not nearly the same as internally with the 50. Again, only standard midi cc data is sent to SD3.

                      Only the TD-50 alone with digital ride and snare triggering internal sounds of the 50 with MIDI local ON takes full advantage of the digital ride and snare, so you're stuck with the weird snares and 2 rides. TD-50 snares can be cool if they are VEXed or customized or layered but truly lacking as stock sounds and still sound unnatural. I do like the ride and though there are only two they are so malleable you can create many and again nice VEX alternatives in Studio X.

                      If I exclude VST/AU's altogether I can stay in the modules, use positional sensing with the 50 pads and happily forgo it on the Mimic pads. Then no, I wouldn't miss PS on the only VST/AU that offers it.

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                      • #12
                        when I used a roland module(td15) I didn't turn off local control. I think I just turned the volume of all the instruments down to zero on the first kit and named it MIDI KIT. That way I could just use that kit with SD3 and use the rest of the kits module sounds. Which I never really did(Only when my computer was acting up and I didn't feel like dealing with it)

                        you could turn all the volumes down except the snare and ride and then you'll have positional sensing still.

                        I do love SD3 but reading your last post makes me not miss dealing with VST's at all lol.

                        Noble & Cooley acoustics. Paiste cymbals.
                        Mimic Pro, SPD SX, SPD30, SD3

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Roving Drummer View Post
                          when I used a roland module(td15) I didn't turn off local control. I think I just turned the volume of all the instruments down to zero on the first kit and named it MIDI KIT. That way I could just use that kit with SD3 and use the rest of the kits module sounds. Which I never really did(Only when my computer was acting up and I didn't feel like dealing with it)

                          you could turn all the volumes down except the snare and ride and then you'll have positional sensing still.

                          I do love SD3 but reading your last post makes me not miss dealing with VST's at all lol.
                          "I do love SD3 but reading your last post makes me not miss dealing with VST's at all lol." - Right? Holy cr*p!! And this is a major argument for using Pearl Mimic Pro as opposed to SSD5 VST/AU triggering.

                          I understand what you are saying about turning down the volume but my point is you are not accurately triggering SD3 this way. I have to say that a full positional sensing triggering with MIDI local off from TD-50 to SD3 is fantastic and the rim articulation on tom rim shots a huge plus. Playing from edge to center can be dramatic; dynamic and musical on toms and especially snare and snare rimshots. Goes without saying on the ride. It is an argument for center mounted cones and PS without a doubt.

                          You won't find it in the user's manual but on page 33 of the TD-50 0nline data list you will find this inconveniently located diagram I attached as a file below. It significantly improves the performance of SD3 when triggering from a module:
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-11-19, 02:38 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Howstamychi I used to think that I would really miss the Positional sensing more than it turns out that I actually do. No doubt, there is a difference, and I'd love for the Roland patents to go away so that the Mimic could support this directly, but it's not as big a deal as I thought it would be. I still find myself playing middle to edge and expecting the hear something (and don't) but practically, it doesn't really make much mater. It's subtle at least, especially in a mix, and more especially live, where it just sounds "different" not better - and only to people who can really listen and in the best of room and PA circumstances. Rim shots on toms? Never really used them. Sure, I know of places that they could be used - I myself just never have really used them, even back in my Acoustic playing days, so I don't miss those.

                            I have tried to use VSTs and have just found it to be a hassle and now that I have the Mimic it is even less appealing than before since the audio coming off of these is so very close, except for personal preference of samples in use that it really doesn't even appeal to me to screw with it. I might pull out my Addictive Drums 2 library and see what it does when I have a few spare minutes. I have a newer Audio Interface now (Presonus Studio 1824 USB) that MIGHT trigger it better under the Mimic than it did under the TD-20 - with new ATV hi-hats as well since the old combo of TD-20 + VH-12 just made a complete mess of things (sometimes open when supposed to be closed, sometimes just wouldn't close at all no matter what I did, etc).

                            Again - VSTs are cool. The immediacy and great sound of the Mimic makes it less and less appealing to bother with, honestly. I am already short of time and would rather spend it doing more productive things In my mixes.

                            As for linking the two modules together - I suppose if it doesn't make an uncomfortable latency, you might as well get good use of the 50. That said, for as ODD as the TD-50 snares sound, I am a bit surprised how many people extoll the virtues of the digital snare. It seemed to me (when I was considering the TD-50) that no matter how cool the snare, it couldn't make up for the not-so-great snare sounds (IMHO). In fact, I didn't really get that much out of the snare or ride except for enjoyment of their size and heft. I've since converted a real DW 13x5 snare to be my main e-snare (a size I always preferred to the 14" standard) and I hope to sell a few more bits of gear to be able to buy an 18" ATV Ride. (Anyone want to buy a set of VH-12 hats?)
                            My Updated Website: https://blades.technology

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Blades View Post
                              Howstamychi I used to think that I would really miss the Positional sensing more than it turns out that I actually do. No doubt, there is a difference, and I'd love for the Roland patents to go away so that the Mimic could support this directly, but it's not as big a deal as I thought it would be. I still find myself playing middle to edge and expecting the hear something (and don't) but practically, it doesn't really make much mater. It's subtle at least, especially in a mix, and more especially live, where it just sounds "different" not better - and only to people who can really listen and in the best of room and PA circumstances. Rim shots on toms? Never really used them. Sure, I know of places that they could be used - I myself just never have really used them, even back in my Acoustic playing days, so I don't miss those.

                              I have tried to use VSTs and have just found it to be a hassle and now that I have the Mimic it is even less appealing than before since the audio coming off of these is so very close, except for personal preference of samples in use that it really doesn't even appeal to me to screw with it. I might pull out my Addictive Drums 2 library and see what it does when I have a few spare minutes. I have a newer Audio Interface now (Presonus Studio 1824 USB) that MIGHT trigger it better under the Mimic than it did under the TD-20 - with new ATV hi-hats as well since the old combo of TD-20 + VH-12 just made a complete mess of things (sometimes open when supposed to be closed, sometimes just wouldn't close at all no matter what I did, etc).

                              Again - VSTs are cool. The immediacy and great sound of the Mimic makes it less and less appealing to bother with, honestly. I am already short of time and would rather spend it doing more productive things In my mixes.

                              As for linking the two modules together - I suppose if it doesn't make an uncomfortable latency, you might as well get good use of the 50. That said, for as ODD as the TD-50 snares sound, I am a bit surprised how many people extoll the virtues of the digital snare. It seemed to me (when I was considering the TD-50) that no matter how cool the snare, it couldn't make up for the not-so-great snare sounds (IMHO). In fact, I didn't really get that much out of the snare or ride except for enjoyment of their size and heft. I've since converted a real DW 13x5 snare to be my main e-snare (a size I always preferred to the 14" standard) and I hope to sell a few more bits of gear to be able to buy an 18" ATV Ride. (Anyone want to buy a set of VH-12 hats?)
                              You make a lot of excellent points in favor of the Mimic Pro over triggering SSD5 thank you. The PS may be more of a factor when one is just playing alone and experimenting without a band as I've been taught to hit toms in a 2-3 inch space in the middle with acoustics. PS rimshot articulation is just a cool feature that works well with Roland and SD3 and sounds neat but it is a guarantee you will get a nice sound, where as with acoustics I use them sparingly and when they fail it sounds like a mistake. I can see losing interest in PS with a Mimic.

                              I don't anticipate any latency using both modules because there will be no A/D conversion from the Audio Interface just an analogue direct out from one module to another which I believe is completely negligable latency-wise. The immediacy and feel of triggers to modules is what I'm after. I've spouted about the wonders of new thunderbolt 3 Audio Interfaces and USB3 MIDI Interfaces and they do make playing VST/AU's satisfying for me. I can't feel any lag anymore but I expect there is a superior playing experience ahead using only modules that will make me realize there was still a little lag. I still can't imagine not triggering SD3 but if it remains an option then I've potentially failed at this venture. The Slate sounds are fat and punchy and great fun to play. I look forward to updates and VEX packs. I'm hoping I will lose interest in triggering a VST with this set up. Id also consider if I am fortunate enough to own two modules I should be grateful for the experience. If I have to sell one down the road Id expect to get a fair price.

                              I like many VEX TD-50 snare sounds as well as those I've created, never looking for absolute realism but rather a fantastic V drum sound using an extremely articulate triggering system. I love the sound of V drums and the way they feel to play. I love the idea of combining TD electronica and Mimic realistic sampled instruments. There are some Maple, Bubinga, and Birch Tom sets and Cymbal Sets in the TD-50 Studio X pack that sound beautiful and I am a big fan of the electronic kits from the Roland Artist Series as well as the TD-50's collection of vintage drum machine sounds. This is where the TD-50 excels imo. The Mimic would take care of obliterating the horrifying single layer Roland TD-50 factory snares and also provide fantastic sampled toms and kicks and cymbals. The modules can sit piggy-back with adequate space between them and easily split the triggers of an MDS-50K rack. Simple patch bay work to go back and forth between Roland cymbals and Mimic cymbals.

                              Digital (side) snare will also function nicely as a 14" floor tom/percussion pad and aesthetically coherent next to chrome 12" PD-128 bc. So PD-140DS and CY-18DR digital pads, and 1 PD-128 bc and 1PDX-100 analogue pad always connected to TD-50 brain using Positional Sensing with separate layered instrument triggers for head and rim of the 2 toms and snare, making the most of TD-50. I also have a BT-1 so that's 4-7 triggers and potential layering of 2 sounds on 6 of them. I have a CY-15R for Mimic ride and 1 crash and 1 crash/ride for crashes, just need a new snare for the Mimic with side trigger. I am also considering replacing my PDX-100 toms that would trigger the Mimic with newer PDX-12 side trigger tom pads but only if the PDX-100's hot spot on Mimic. They and the PD-128 bc are giving me zero trouble having dialed it completely out on the Roland with the help of this forum and because I tightened new 3 ply Real Feel heads on them. And they are new, so center cone is good. It just seems like side mounted triggering works better with the Mimic from all I've read. All in all pricey but I have no real life outside of e drums so this all makes me happy and hopeful and stay out of trouble. I'm also needing to establish my non exsistent credit rating and can't think of a better way to do it. Thanks to the forum for letting me put in writing my boring kit configuration which has been stuck, gnawing in my e brain, and for all the helpful advice. It has been an invaluable aid in the anxiety of decision making and helps crystallize ideas as well as rule out potential blunders.
                              Last edited by Howstamychi; 02-11-19, 02:45 PM. Reason: Additional thought.

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