2box module vs Trigger I/O + Software

[Temas]

Hi. I'm going round in circles trying to make a decision on which route to go down. Please bare with my long post!

I'm a composer and producer and have been making music as my sole income for 20 years. I run Logic Pro on a MacPro with an RME PCIe AES-32 soundcard, but only have 4 channels of AD/DA attached. I've got tons of plugins and loads of drum patches that I currently trigger with an MPD32, but I've never purchased anything from the big names in drum software.

I'm about to buy a really nice set of acoustic shells built for edrumming and need to decide on cymbals and module. The objective is to be able to record multiple musicians performing simultaneously. I make a variety of music from indie to electronic to acoustic and classical. I'm not into most rock, country or metal. I like drum kits that are expressive with tons of dynamic range and variation throughout velocity range.


Option 1. Buy a 2box module, with cymbals and hi hat.

Pros: No compatibility or set up headaches. Really expressive kits straight out of the box. Can add own sounds to kits. Drummer can monitor with no latency. Solid, reliable kit that can be gigged. Frees up CPU on the MacPro.

Cons: Tweaking kits will be time consuming and probably require me sending the 8 individual analog outputs to the DAW, which means I'll need 8 more channels of AD conversion.


Option 2. Buy a cheap module (TD-6 or Trigger IO), Roland or Yamaha cymbals & hats + Drum Software.

Pros: Won't need to buy any more channels of AD conversion. Familiar, intuitive environment for easy tweaking. More money left over to spend on software to get a good range of kits.

Cons: Set up and compatibility could be frustrating and might not even work. Most software kits are too aggressive for my taste; not dynamic or expressive enough. Even my MacPro could struggle with the intense CPU demand, not so stable and probably not ideal for live use.


If I don't buy the 2Box now, I probably never will because I'll be buying Roland or Yamaha hats and cymbals. If I do, I'll have to fully commit to the 2box work flow. Some people seem to have the Trigger IO working great, others say its a piece of junk, others can't the choke to work or dual zone cymbals.

Any advice welcome.

[perceval]

For 2Box, the only thing tying you to their hardware is the HH pedal trigger. All cymbals can be from Yamaha, if you wished.

Why would you need extra AD channels? Just plug in the USB from the 2Box modules (or any other module) and set up your DAW+VST for recording.

Multiple outputs is mostly for live situations.

Trigger IO is starting to be really old. Much better triggering can be had from Megadrum or even Yamaha DTX502.

Will you stay in the studio most of the time? Go cheap with a DTX502 and spend the rest on drum VSTs.

Going on the road often? Get a 2Box and invest some time to get the kits you want / need. No need to go overboard... most live situations need only a small tweaking between songs... if any at all!

Here's a guy using a DTXTreme III/900 module with Addictive drums... which is usually considered limited in dynamics for a VST.... not too bad in this case!

[Temas]

Thanks Perceval. Some very useful information, which is good to know, such as the Yamaha cymbals being compatible with 2box.

I can also now see how it should be possible to trigger and edit sounds from inside the computer, not just in the module.

I had already considered the DTX502. What would be the best way to add some additional trigger inputs to it?

[yzf125]

Roland drums and cymbals also work with 2Box.

[perceval]

I had already considered the DTX502. What would be the best way to add some additional trigger inputs to it?

You could start by splitting the kick and tom inputs. You only need a Y cable, stereo to 2 monos.

[perceval]

And I forgot to mention that Yamaha cymbals will work with 2Box, but not their toms. As said above, Roland does, as with any easy DIY jobs out there.

[airflamesred]

If you need live then go with 2box. If not, Megadrum (a staggering 56 inputs) and any pads/cymbal combination you like.

[Temas]

If not, Megadrum (a staggering 56 inputs) and any pads/cymbal combination you like.

[airflamesred]

A wise choice,sir.

[Kabonfaiba]

If you're going for Megadrum you really should get it with the positional sensing board as you'll really be maximizing the value and potential for only a little extra cash.

The jump in expense required for positional sensing these days on the Roland modules is just extreme now since the TD11 or TD15 don't have PS, only the TD30 does.

In terms of used modules, the only alternative to Megadrum would be a TD-12 - but what's the point in that if you just want to trigger VSTs? Megadrum would still be cheaper, and beats it in midi latency also (by about 2-4ms) When you use a VST that makes use of PS midi data, your instantly be capable of TD30 dynamics, but with even better sound. :-)

Or as you say, go in the 2box direction - it really is a direction since I wouldn't want to be using 2box as a Midi trigger as it would elude the point, it doesn't have PS but it's portable and simplicity is an advantage when it comes to drumming.

Either way, you're be learning VSTs and putting them into your 2box, or learning VSTs and how to make them work with Megadrum. Both modules have huge potential.

[Temas]

Yeah, coincidentally I spent some of this morning reading into Position Sensing. I don't really understand the physics of what its doing but recognise its importance. 2-4ms shouldn't be sniffed at either as it all mounts up, even with the RME card I'm using.

Also I had some feedback regarding Megadrum from Diamond who are building my shell pack of 5 pads. He said, "Megadrum is a learning curve. With pads like mine and Roland etc you have to cool the signal maybe with an in line pot (potentiometer). They do have a forum but not sure how helpful they are."

I'm quite knowledgable with music technology, but clueless with electronics, so I'm not sure if Position Sensing and In-Line Pots are the same. There is doubt in my mind about the Megadrum and still need some clarification about compatibility before I commit.

Its very frustrating that there's no professional, up to date, industry standard solution for trigger to MIDI. I can understand why Roland and Yamaha don't want to make it easy to bypass their hardware, but I'm surprised there's no off the shelf device available to fill this gap in the market.

[perceval]

I'm quite knowledgable with music technology, but clueless with electronics, so I'm not sure if Position Sensing and In-Line Pots are the same. There is doubt in my mind about the Megadrum and still need some clarification about compatibility before I commit.

An in-line pot is a potentiometer. Think of it like the volume knob on your music amp. It turns the signal up or down. In the case of the potentiometer, it turn the signal coming from the piezo in the pad from 100% to 0%. That's what he meant by "cool down".

Its very frustrating that there's no professional, up to date, industry standard solution for trigger to MIDI. I can understand why Roland and Yamaha don't want to make it easy to bypass their hardware, but I'm surprised there's no off the shelf device available to fill this gap in the market.

How hard is it to connect a USB cable from a Yamaha or Roland? You will still need to do the same with Megadrum. I think you will have a lot of questions and problems if you choose to go with a Megadrum. I suggest you read the VST primer in the VST section of this forum to get more knowledge.

Also, the advantages of a module is, if your computer with VST crashes, you still can use module sounds to play. With Megadrum, if your computer is not working, you have no sound.

It is a just as easy (if not easier) to connect a Yamaha module to a computer, compared to Megadrum.

Read more before taking the plunge because I have the feeling you don't grasp the VST concept yet.

[airflamesred]

I never quite understand the 'steep learning curve' accusation leveled at MD. It's the Swiss army knife of trigger interfaces.The majority of problems I see, brought up, on the MD forum are related to people not reading the set up instructions.

You may have to add a resistor to your drums if the signal is too hot. I would be surprised if that was the case.

Positional sensing only applies to certain Roland modules.

[Temas]

All I was saying is that the only dedicated Trigger to MIDI devices on the market are the Alesis unit and the Roland TMC-6. I haven't ruled out buying a used TD-8 or 10. The Yamahas don't have enough inputs for me. The 2box concept I love but doesn't quite work the way I'd like it to at the moment, so I'll probably wait and see how their system develops over the near future.

I'm attracted to the Megadrum concept because AFAIK it transforms trigger to MIDI faster than anything else and its dedicated to performing one task really well. Dmitri from the Megadrum forum has advised me that the Positional Sensing board will cool the Diamond Drums enough without the need for voltage dividing 15k resistors. But I'm still not 100% sold.

[Kabonfaiba]

That's correct, there is no suitable off-the-shelf Trigger-to-MIDI package in existence, except for Alesis. - There is that new replacement called the Sample Rack with 8 inputs, but nobody knows what its actually like. I have a feeling it won't be better than Megadrum, less inputs, no PS, unknown support for Roland parts, etc. Considering it's low cost, there is no way it can do the sounds from Memory card better than 2box either.

The only problem with Megadrum imo is the manager, which makes it hard to get your head around. I see this problem everywhere, especially in professional design software. Intuitive design is incredibly hard to do, but Dmitri's work so far on it has been that of an engineer, making an user interface... i.e. Unless you know the terminology, every button is a mystery prize, complex functions are abbreviated so you have to look them up, valves seemingly have no limits, long drop down lists of duplicate items, etc. Being well read-up on MIDI is a prerequisite.

You get the same thing in drum modules of course, having to dive down menus to find the things you want to change, but at least with Megadrum you're not using a tiny screen to do it. Once you do it once, you can save and forget really.

My advice is to get the MIDI note map for a TD30 and duplicate it in Megadrum, use the logging, use the Megadrum screen, check min-max hits, check hi-hat. Now when you load VST fresh, just pick TD30 preset and everything should work right away. Then you can move the tweaking inside the VST and leave Megadrum interface well alone lol.