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ho wow.. i really need assistant (about fsr's)

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  • ho wow.. i really need assistant (about fsr's)

    hello!

    I read everything about diy e-drums, and i'm corrently building a complete drumset from scratch (except the shells. but if someone knows how can i build shells from pvc pipes or something i would appreciate the info)
    anyway. that fsr deal.
    i would like to get more inputs from my td-5 (ok don't laugh). the td-5 is 8 stereo inputs and i don't need the rim sounds of the toms. so i thought about: getting a piezo to close an electic connection when struck. This idea is very much like an alarm trigger: when the piezo senses something, the circuit closes and the alarm goes off. all i need from there is some sort of resistor (capacitor? don't know electronics)that would cause that connection to open again after a short interval. I can even mount a second piezo into the pads: that one would be dedicated for closing the circuit on every each time the pad is struck. it is seems to me that the thread: http://www.vdrums.com/discussion/For...ML/001137.html
    was supposed to deal with the same problem: "Can anyone give me info about building the "virtual" FSR switch that I've read about in this forum?" but no one answered the guy's problem.
    can you help me? (have i made myself clear?) is this message to long?

    10x for any (reasonable ) reply

    [This message has been edited by emc (edited May 09, 2002).]

  • #2
    Hi emc,
    I'm the guy who wrote that post. I ended up ordering some free FSR samples and built a crappy pad, but it wasn't worth it at all. It was ugly and unreliable. Not to mention the fact that switches are not real sensitive. Good for crashes, but thats it. Chances are you'll spend more $ and time than it's worth.

    I found 4 Yamaha PCY80's (piezo\FSR combo) for 25$ a peice at Guitar center and was able to satisfy my needs.

    I also learned that by connecting FSR pads to my Toms, I lost positional sensing (TD10-TDW1)...makes sense because I think positional sensing uses 2 samples (center and edge). I like positional sensing.

    I even went as far as to buy another module-TD6 to expand inputs and trigger TD10 sounds. That was cool but expensive. I returned the module and will probably get a cheaper one when I have a chance.

    There are a few homemade Edrum pages around here somewhere but I can't seem to find them in my "links". Do some searching for "homemade" and good luck.

    Bill

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Feefer,
      You have mentioned a few times in past threads that I should be able to retain normal P. sensing on my toms and still be able to get an FSR to trigger some other sound from that same tom input.

      However, whenever I've tried it I've never been able to find a trigger type that will accomodate both positional sensing and trigger a new sound off the rim.

      Are you saying that this should work with a shack adapter?

      Bill

      Comment


      • #4
        WEeee
        feefer & snills answerd me! i feel so lucky

        snills, p.sensing is about the shape of the wave that the module gets from the pad. think about 2 waves in the ocean: one is in israel, at winter time: so the waves are big but choppy and all messed up and we all hate it...
        now think about a nice cool wave in california: summer and there are lots of babes on the beach: obviously the waves are big, but in order, all of them brake at a specified point and all.

        that's the theory. p.s. changes because of frequency.

        but I (would) use plain old td-5, and thus won't have the problem you have described...

        I built one fsr but it really looks pretty bad. maybe i'll consider buying some parts (like the snare) and not making them myself.


        "I think the original thread actually answers the question quite well: there is no "virtual" switch needed, just an FSR element somewhere in the set-up, acting as a switch."

        yeah, well, a vitrual one would be better...
        my girlfriend's father works in the field and might hook me up with someone that will help. this going to take a while as i'm still waiting for the module to arrive - got lost in the mail.

        hey! all that p.s stuff is great! but for another thread... kidding.

        one last question: about the rim sound of the highat. i saw a movie which got me mixed up, because I saw the guy tapping close to the center of the hat to get a second (not highat at all btw) rim sound.
        does the highet fsr located somewhere at the center - like the ride, or at the edge - like i always thought and beatnik shows?

        Comment


        • #5
          So... can I just clarify something??

          I have a TD8 with a CY15r cybmbal. At the moment, I am not using the Bow/Edge output of the cymbal at all, because I don't have any spare FSR/FSR inputs on my module (like a standard crash input).

          I do have a spare FSR/piezo input though (no. 11 or 12??). I have never got the cymbal to work with this... But if I put a mono plug in the bow/edge of the cymbal, and wire both +ve wires from a stereo plug to the +ve of the mono plug (i.e. a standard mono to stereo adapter), it will make the module trigger??

          I hope that makes sense - a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer will make / save me a trip to a local electrical shop!

          Many thanks,
          Mike.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi all,
            Thanks for the info, but I was already familiar with how PS works. Good luck on your project emc...I had a TD5 for a while but returned it when I found out it didn't have assignable note numbers. i.e. you can't use it to trigger more sounds out of your TD10. I even explored re-assigning the default note numbers on my TD10, to free up those NN's for the TD5 to trigger new sounds but Roland confirmed that the NN's assigned to the TD10's physical inputs can't be re-assigned. Bummer! I tried the TD6 which worked just fine. But I returned it as well. $400 for an input expander was not going to work.

            Feefer,
            I've spent another evening playing with trigger types, module settings and a shack adapter trying to get PS to function correctly. Basically I keep running into this problem. Whenever I find a trigger type that allows FSR and PS functionality,
            the PS is reversed i.e. edge sound when tapping in middle of head, center sound at edge. I've even tried different module settings. I think I've mentioned this before to you and this what I meant when I said it didn't work. I'll try and gather specifics when I get more time.

            BTW: From what you wrote below, I am not seeing how a shack adapter is going to help me. Since I am not combining two FSR Piezo's. Can you confirm?

            Thanks,
            Bill

            >Well, you MUST use a 'Shack Adapter' to
            >combine (2) piezo/FSR pads (like (2) CY-6)
            >into one input, if you want to trigger the
            >sound assigned to the 'head' from one
            >pad's FSR rim, and the sound assigned to
            >the 'rim' from the other pad's FSR rim.
            >The 'Shack Adapter' 'inverts' one of the
            >pad's triggering capabilities, reversing
            >head and rim triggering.

            Comment


            • #7
              hello again!

              just got my td-5 today. man! it's so small and cute. I thought it's going to be just about a vcr machine size, but it's way smaller.

              snills: yeah i know you can't assign note numbers on the midi output, but i'm going to use it as a practice kit mostly, so I REALLY don't mind. I'm just Really glad that I found this kind of equipment in a reasonable price. p.s, my hi-hat pedal is made from plywood+potentiometer, and it works GREAT! perfectly! saved what? 150 bucks?

              no midi carees p.s,(if i'm not mistaken, but I think i'm right) I know the td-10 has "a bit" more sounds then the 5, but still you can hook the td-5 through the aux in. that way you can use your triggers on the td-10 for something more sophisticated then toms.
              (but you probebly what to record right?)

              feefer
              have you understood what's the idea that i'm describing on the thread 1st message?
              a virtual fsr is way more then a dream. it's probably even simple and affordable.. just no1 knows how to make one.
              there is a way: but i'm mostly afraid of the virtual switch to be too sensitive or not enough. this are things that i will be dealing with in the next couple of month i guess.

              10x about the info on the hi-hat. now that the module is here I can check it myself but now i'm sure.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi guys,

                FSR stands for Force Sensing Resistor. FSR's are used as "triggers" in the DrumKat and pole pad from Drum Tech. To my knowledge, there are no other trigger devices that use FSR's. An FSR uses a voltage source. The more pressure on the FSR, the more voltage passes, creating dynamics. Pro- 0 x-talk, Con-expensive, unreliable for drums. All Roland and Yamaha drums and cymbals use a polyester film switch. This switch is used in conjunction with the piezo. When the switch is closed, it simply tells the module to fire a different sound, (or choke). All dynamics are derived from the piezo. the switch does not translate dynamics and is not used as an independent trigger. Hope this helps.

                PH

                Comment


                • #9
                  well this clarification would probebly have been VERY helpful to me some time ago...

                  p.s maybe you have any good idea of making a stable (homemade) fsr?


                  fsr sounds way better then just saying "switch"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by emc:

                    p.s maybe you have any good idea of making a stable (homemade) fsr?
                    And maybe he has a good idea how to sell you an already made stable pad/mesh headed e-drum.
                    Kit Pic 1 Kit Pic 2 Kit Pic 3... And FOR SALE I have: 3 PD-9's, MDS-10 purple rack w/cables/pad and cym mounts. See classified posts for details or PM me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      hdi? As in Hart Dynamics Inc.? Destin Florida.
                      I'm a drummer. I don't play the timpani! Hire a percussionist!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Boingo:
                        And maybe he has a good idea how to sell you an already made stable pad/mesh headed e-drum.
                        ppl stop laugh at me! you have to see my hi-hat in action. i've spent 2 bucks, No wait, 3 bucks on it, and it's great.

                        (yeah ok now you can laugh, but i still mean it)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by emc:
                          ppl stop laugh at me! you have to see my hi-hat in action. i've spent 2 bucks, No wait, 3 bucks on it, and it's great.

                          (yeah ok now you can laugh, but i still mean it)
                          Couldn't help but laugh when you asked Peter Hart "p.s maybe you have any good idea of making a stable (homemade) fsr?" I believe he does have some ideas, and darned good ones at that. But I don't believe you will get them for $2 or $3.
                          http://www.hartdynamics.com/
                          Kit Pic 1 Kit Pic 2 Kit Pic 3... And FOR SALE I have: 3 PD-9's, MDS-10 purple rack w/cables/pad and cym mounts. See classified posts for details or PM me.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Feefer,
                            My cabeling is correct. Do you know of anyone who has this working correctly? I really don't think there is a trigger type that can accomodate PS and an FSR(or switch). At least with a PD100...

                            Bill

                            Originally posted by feefer:



                            I actually use one-piece plastic stereo 'y' adapters, since they fit neatly into the back of the module and avoid the cable mess that a separate 'y' cable encourages.

                            Chris


                            [This message has been edited by Snills (edited May 16, 2002).]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Boingo:
                              Couldn't help but laugh when you asked Peter Hart "p.s maybe you have any good idea of making a stable (homemade) fsr?" I believe he does have some ideas, and darned good ones at that. But I don't believe you will get them for $2 or $3.
                              http://www.hartdynamics.com/
                              yeah well, just a newb don't give any importance for nicks that i donno. (except feefer & beatnik, they are hard to miss)
                              hart desings are nice: don't get me wrong. it just that mine are better

                              Comment

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