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Bottom line on live amplification?

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  • Bottom line on live amplification?

    After doing a search, I was surprised at the amps suggested for playing live. Mackie SRM 450, JBL EON15G2, Roland KC-500. I am not a drummer but isn't having stereo set up important? Even the TDA-700 V-DRUM AMPLIFIER is a mono set up. Also on the TD-8, can you change the patches using a footcontroller run into the midi in on the TD-8? Just trying to help out a drummer who is new to this, thanks for any advice or info.

  • #2
    On the amp/powered speaker part of the question:
    For recording and headphone listening, I think stereo makes a world of difference and would hate to have everything panned to the center. But, I think you will find that these amp's are, more often than not, used as monitors. My monitor is about 3 ft from my left ear. Having a second monitor, would most likely be overkill and I don't have the room or the money for one. If you have plenty of money to burn, get yourself a 2nd unit. Perhaps for home use, you could consider, forgive me guys, a PM3. (I'll be excommunicated for sure with that remark).

    If you are planning on using one of these for the main drum sound source, you will probably get several comments that they are not adequate, so you probably would need a 2nd unit anyway, if not something more powerful.

    I think a lot depends on how the PA is set up. If speakers are far apart, too much panning seperation would sound weird. If speakers are too close, you lose the effect anyway. My kits don't spread the panning all that much normally. Maybe R5 to L5 on the toms at the most. It depends on the music you play, the room, the equipment, your taste, etc.
    Kit Pic 1 Kit Pic 2 Kit Pic 3... And FOR SALE I have: 3 PD-9's, MDS-10 purple rack w/cables/pad and cym mounts. See classified posts for details or PM me.

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    • #3
      I see...so what you are saying is these are generally used for a monitor by the drummer and the drums the room would hear would come from the PA speakers, and yes it would sound weird in stereo thru the PA speaker because of the distance.

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      • #4
        I have two of the SRM450's for use at band practice. I use them execlusively (ie - they are not used for the main PA). This gives you stereo. Although I haven't tried it, I think the volume of just one wouldn't be enough to get over the band and I would get frustrated with just one since it really doesn't "surround" you like the stereo setup does.

        I have only seen the Roland unit at the stores, but my impression is that it doesn't have the power to compete with the most guitar/bass players use. Plus, it's fun to to finally be able to turn up and drown out the guitar player.

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        • #5
          I think amplification for band practice and gigs is the hardest part about playing V-drums. After experimenting around for awhile, the solution that works best for me is two Mackie SRM-450's. For practice I lay them on their sides at my right and left. This is nice because they don't eat up lots of room, and the stereo effect is sweet.

          For gigs I keep the one on my right, but put the other one on it's side at the front of the stage as a drum monitor for the rest of the band.

          I have to say that the new Roland amp looks uninspiring. It seems to be underpowered and oversized, and there is no flexibility in how to position it.
          ~~~
          Tom Conner

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          • #6
            Oh yah, for live gigs I run them in mono, not stereo.
            ~~~
            Tom Conner

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            • #7
              When I first bought my V-drums (1998) I intended to use them for practice and recording. After totally loving what they can do, I couldn't bring myself to play my acoustics live anymore. My amplification solution is overkill but I highly recommend Mackie. I use three M1400i amplifiers pushing 3000 watts of V-drums through six MTX P215H cabinets. M1400i amps have a ton of power at a resonable price!!

              V-man

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              • #8
                For what it's worth, I just got a V-Club kit about 6 weeks ago (I love it!), and I've played out with it 3 times now. Largest gig was a small hall with 250-300 people, also one outdoor gig ( I don't know how many people that was) and a small club last night (about 50 people). I have a Peavey KB-60 amp I use as a monitor and I run the TD-6 mono to the KB-60, then run a line from the pre-amp out to a channel on the bands' sound system (also a Peavey, but I can't remember what it is, right now). We run it to the PA and put a little in the monitors. Honestly, the band has never sounded better, sound checks take 5 minutes and the drum sound is great!

                ------------------

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                • #9
                  When I first got my V-Pro's I got a KC-300 with the intent of getting another soon after. It was way too little an amp to be of any use for live stuff. I've since gone to two JBL EON G2's. The have all the power I need and sound great. I have them set up just outside the posts at the back of the rack. The kit is paned so the HH is on my left shoulder and the Ride is on the right, Snare, Kick, centered, etc... I can hear the kit fine at gigs, and the kit is heard good in the mix.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Bottom line on live amplification?

                    Originally posted by Vomit
                    After doing a search, I was surprised at the amps suggested for playing live. Mackie SRM 450, JBL EON15G2, Roland KC-500. I am not a drummer but isn't having stereo set up important? Even the TDA-700 V-DRUM AMPLIFIER is a mono set up. Also on the TD-8, can you change the patches using a footcontroller run into the midi in on the TD-8? Just trying to help out a drummer who is new to this, thanks for any advice or info.
                    I can answer one question. I strongly believe that Stereo is very important for Live amplification. Roland's are state of the art instruments that sound great because of COSM, effects, plus all of the other terrific features. A properly placed stereo system will sound fantastic.

                    The problem is cost. I know many keyboardists that have fantastic boards and run through their systems in mono. What a waste. But the bottom line is they can't afford everyting necessary to run in true stereo. Stereo means two inputs for each instrument and that chews up available channels on a board. Also most bands want to run a power amp "bridge mono" to gain power for less dollars. It's a vicious cycle.

                    Our entire system is run in stereo, including the vocals because of the processors (VocalPrisms). Then again, I'm very fortunate to have been able to aquire everyting needed. I have to have two 16 channel digital boards(every channel used due to stereo), two K2 amps, etc, etc, etc. I've taken 5 years to build this system, but the end result is FANTASTIC! But not cheap! Like I said, I've been extremely fortunate.

                    Hope this helps!

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                    • #11
                      The way we handle the sweet spot is by using 3 main cabinets a side. One faces straight ahead, one slightly to the left and one slightly to the right. The subs don't matter, and don't need to be run stereo.

                      Truthfully, I didn't know if this would work or not. But I've enlisted the help of other sound wary buds to give me a thumbs up or a thumbs down and so far I recieved nothing but good. Hope they're not just being nice! The cost has been a factor, and I wouldn't recommend it for anyone trying to get the most bang for the buck.

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                      • #12
                        I've been to a few Floyd concerts. From what I heard, they use stereo sparingly. When they do, it has an intentional dramatic effect (hard right, hard left and pinging back and forth). They also use a surround sound and have some parts chase around the entire stadium (appropriate for their style music).

                        Where you are in a stadium has a lot to do with how well you will hear it. (trip down memory lane...) I recall a show in Phila, Momentary Lapse of Reason Tour, at the Vet Statium where I had these dynamite seats 1/3 back from the stage, center of arena, on the floor. I could barely make out what they were playing. The bass in particular seemed to be swirling around the place. Moved to a spot opposite the stage, on second level, directly in line with the band and it was near CD quality sound. They do use a lot of speakers spread out over the entire stadium which helps.

                        As far as regular stereo with instruments and voices spread strategically across the stage, if it was in stereo, I wasn't hearing it.
                        Kit Pic 1 Kit Pic 2 Kit Pic 3... And FOR SALE I have: 3 PD-9's, MDS-10 purple rack w/cables/pad and cym mounts. See classified posts for details or PM me.

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                        • #13
                          ah..yes floyd animals tour chicago 1977.first row center. 70,000 people spark J's as floyd come out.sheep and pigs fly over head. movie screens,fireworks,quad sound systen. this show is where waters (I hurd) got the idea for the wall, coz 1.the instruments got riped off. 2.waters called his old lady at home and some guy was there.3.the people who put on the show gave floyd a set fee based on x tickets sold, then pulled the stage back sold more tix.people busted later on for that.

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                          • #14
                            Although this an old post I'll weigh in.

                            My band, Prime Number (www.prime-number.net), plays in clubs and halls and has done some "backyard" gigs. I use two JBL EON G2's for my expanded V-Pro kit. They are set just outside the rack at the rear.

                            The JBL's are the only voice for my V's as we don't run them through the PA. We have been in halls large enough for 1,000 people and I have never had to have the volume on the TD-10, or the JBL's above center (12:00) on the dial. The JBL's have plenty of power (300w EA).

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                            • #15
                              I'm new to this forum too and probably most of what you need to know has already been said in earlier replies.

                              For what it's worth though I tried numerous cabs, amps and active monitors before settling on a single Mackie SA1521. It goes lower and has more power (400w 15" + 100w Horn) than the SRM450. I found the Eon15 G2's a bit loose and woolley in the bottom end. With my Bonzo Bonham patch the cab rattled every time I hit the bass drum!

                              I use the 1521 for live monitoring driven out of the FX send of a Spirit Notepad in mono . I send the master outs of the TD8 thru 2 mono in's on the Notepad, then out to the FOH desk and let that handle the main stereo mix.

                              The only issue I have with it is that it's physically a bit big. 2 SRM450s would have been easier at the load in, but Hey it's quality. It's the nearest thing to the sound I hear when listening thru good headphones.

                              You can change 'chained' kit settings (move up and down) using a dual-type foot switch via the switch jack socket

                              Hope this helps.

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