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pd-120/vcymbal trigger issue with td-8

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  • pd-120/vcymbal trigger issue with td-8

    Ok vdrum gurus,

    I've searched this problem out, but have not seen this particular problem described. I've been struggling with this problem for about 2 weeks now. It appeared to come out of nowhere too...making it all the more frustrating.

    I am running a pd-120 (love it by the way!) with a td-8 brain and 3 roland Vcymabals (2-14 crashes and 15 ride (hate it, by the way!) and roland cy6 (hi hat) on a v-cust kit (I know...old fashioned these days). Out of the blue, my vcymbals start choking when I strike them and the pd-120 at the same time. The problem is much worse when I am trying to do, say, fast snare rolls (e.g. 32nd+ notes) with cymbal crashes included in the rolls. When doing these types of fills, it's really bad. Also, the pd-120 fails to trigger consistently when I am triggering toms and snare simultaneously (like doing a crescendo snare/tom flam pattern, for instance). I've manipulated all kinds of settings (crosstalk, retrig etc.) and have even rebooted the td-8 module. This sucks! Any ideas? Thanks in advance gang!

    Sometimes, I wonder why I bother with edrums

  • #2

    I really don't know, but since I have a modified custom set also, here's my experience:

    I have experienced a slight problem doing fast work (32s, etc.) around the toms, and then hitting my PD-9 (ride position) intermittenly. What happens is the PD-9 chokes when there are too many notes comming from the toms (like your problem).

    However, it is so slight, that it is completely tolerable, and I have been able to work around it (even work it in), and really have never adjusted any of the triggering parameters to try and get rid of it.

    However, it NEVER happens with my pd-120, and I have had no need to update my TD-8 to the new driver (since the only two additional pieces of gear my V-custom are the PD-9 and the PD-120). My other two cymbals are PD-7s and the hi-hat as well.

    Maybe... the speed of the computer can't handle the extra NEW pieces of gear, since the TD-8 was originally designed around a few PD-7s. Plus an upgraded operating system usually just adds more fat to any computer, so maybe that has something to do with it. But, in case you have not figured it out by now-I DON'T KNOW-SORRY!

    At the very least, it is possible to have at least a PD-9 and a PD-120 without too many problems. Hopefully, someone else knows the answer. Good luck


    • #3
      Try lowering your crosstalk settings. (Just a guess...)
      Roland TD-20 v1.08, various v-drums and v-cymbals, Yamaha KP65's, Axis pedals, Gibraltar hardware, Mackie 1202/SRM450 (pre-china)


      • #4
        Thanks for the feedback guys. Unfortunately, I've done all this and nothing.

        FYI though...I just had my first encounter with Roland tech support on this issue (and a couple other outstanding ones) and I am here to tell you that I was thoroughly unimpressed. I got nothing but a lot of "it might be this...it might be that....etc." Further, I brought up the long-standing issue regarding the bell sensitivity of the 15" V-ride and how most people were reporting having to beat the hell out of it, while others were reporting the ability to trigger it with a stick tip strike. They were emphatic in their insistence that the design requires that the bell be thrashed with the shoulder of the stick. When I pointed out that numerous others here had reported otherwise, I was told...."you can't always believe what you here...." Thanks for nothing. So, is this the technical support that I am to expect from the industry standard edrum company? Again, thank for nothing. I am totally uninspired.


        • #5
          Originally posted by mudyax:
          I just had my first encounter with Roland tech support ... I was thoroughly unimpressed ... I brought up the long-standing issue regarding the bell sensitivity of the 15" V-ride ... They were emphatic in their insistence that the design requires that the bell be thrashed with the shoulder of the stick. Thanks for nothing. I am totally uninspired.
          IF there are a lot of "defective" v-cymbal rides out there, AND they do work by hitting the bell with vigor using the shoulder of the stick, they can either recall their product at great cost to them (assuming they have a fix) OR they can tell you it is working properly, have some unhappy customers and not notice even a dent in sales.

          Now what do you expect from them or most businesses?

          I wouldn't be surprised if they already know about the fix mentioned on this site. I also won't be surprised if any improvements are long in coming.

          Sounds to me like you should try what was suggested on this forum and/or adjust the scan time as Steve Fisher recently suggested.

          Of course, you could be pissed about it and vow not to buy another Roland product, but you will most likely get over it soon and buy more Roland stuff anyway. Face facts, we all know how those VDrums.Commer's are. Gotta, gotta, just gotta have it!
          Kit Pic 1 Kit Pic 2 Kit Pic 3... And FOR SALE I have: 3 PD-9's, MDS-10 purple rack w/cables/pad and cym mounts. See classified posts for details or PM me.


          • #6
            Thanks for the tips guys. Yea, I told them their product sucked for the money and asked them why I should continue dropping my hard earned $$$ (and by the boatloads!) on products that "suck by design?" I got the standard "I just work there...." The tech guys did tell me though that they saw no indication that Roland was set to release a "fixed" version of the V-ride and, in effect, that is just how it is." Again, I said "thanks for nothing...and this great advice cost me $5K of investing over the course of a year?" Again, I am totally unimpressed! They also had nothing flattering to say about vdrums.com...and indeed barely even acknowledged its existence.

            In fact, funny story....my bro works the drum shop at Guitar Center in Boise, ID (and is also a vdrummer) and he reports trying to discuss vdrums.com with the regional roland rep over dinner one night. Check this...the rep knew NOTHING about vdrums.com! Never even heard of it! My bro was astounded! So, there you have it....vdrums is officially "the underground."

            But, yes to your questions about tweaking settings in the setup module...I've been playing around with crosstalk and scan time and the like..and thus far, no real improvement. I still have many permutations to go yet though...and I have a few other ideas to try out (no thanks whatever to roland tech support).

            Regarding the concept of upgrading the td-8 software, I have not even considered this at this point. From what I have heard this is not straightforward and is risky. But, I have not yet research the matter. Why this would occur sorta out of the blue is the biggest mystery. I made no major settings changes prior to the onset of this problem. Whatever the issue, the pd-120 trigger appears to be at the heart of the matter.

            Yes, you're right....I will probably be pissed for awhile until I get some extra $$$ and then I'll be down to guitar center buying more roland gear. Look what they have done to me. I'm addicted to a drug with sh***y tech support.

            Thanks guys!! Back to the drawing board.

            ps: I still have not learned how to quote text successfully. Can someone help me? I've tried going in and hitting "quote," but am clearly doing something wrong. Also, my DW pedal keeps sliding off the kd80 kick tower lip. It's pissing me off! Am I going to have to get medieval on it with power tools? Is there a simple solution? Any pictures of "quick fixes" out there? Thanks again!!


            • #7
              Try wrapping the Roland lip with duct tape so the clamp can bite in better.

              This may work for the kick trigger problem too.
              Immensely powerful yet with a liquid cat-quick elegance


              • #8
                Thanks Gingerbaker. Great idea. I hadn't thought of duct tape...but, I don't know why...I think duct tape, a hammer and some WD-40 could cure a broken heart
                Making some progress on the v-cymbal choking issue by tweaking the brain ad infinitum, but it's slow going. Keep those great idea flowing!

                Thanks again guys!


                • #9
                  You absolutely need to update the TD-8 software if you want the V-cymbals to work right - the update adds trigger settings for the V-cyms. It's really not that hard.

                  How do you have the PD-120 mounted? If it's on the rack, take it off and put it on a snare stand. Mine works great that way.

                  [This message has been edited by mfrzrdrum (edited May 05, 2002).]


                  • #10
                    Thanks for the feedback guys.

                    feefer: Been there, done that. I've been working the settings on the td-8 for over a year now for various applications. I am by no means omnipotent in the matter, nor am I likely to become. But, they simply are not that involved and there are but so many permutations one can muster per application. And thus far, these permutations have not brought about a viable resolution to the problem.

                    I have had some luck throttling back the xtalk settings, but now, of course, I am at the mercy of excessive xtalk on my gibralter rack. It's always something! But, I most definitely appreciate the thread link and I will read through it to see if I can obtain expanded enlightenment in the matter.

                    mfrzrdrum: To date, I have not considered updating the software for the td-8. The roland tech guys did not indicate this was a requisite action either. But, since they appear to suck at their jobs, I will no longer put much stock in what they say about anything. But, you say it is necessary? If this is true, has it not been necessary during the first few months I had the vcymbals? Other than the persistent ride bell issue, they have worked great up until manifestation of this annoying issue? Now, all of a sudden, I have ambiguous gremlins galore!

                    Thanks again guys!


                    • #11
                      Oh yea....

                      Regarding updating the td-8 module, what's involved and HOW MUCH does it cost?



                      • #12

                        Cost is free, download from Roland web site.

                        Follow Harlock's above link. He is a smart TD-8 dude.


                        • #13
                          harlock and mfrzrdrum, you guys rule! Thanks for the great link to the relevant threads harlock! With any luck, I will get this issue whipped into submission sooner, rather than later....with no help from Roland, regretably. F*#$ em! With v-drum brainiacs like you around, who needs em? Thanks again!!


                          • #14
                            We'd do fine without Roland.. someone else would step up. Hopefully for cheaper Actualy the cheaper part wouldn't happen... but quality could be different.

                            And honestly if Roland died tomorrow, i'd be alright with that. There are enough companies now that make some great quality stuff at good prices. Hart, Alesis, ddrum, Pintech (eh kinda), etc etc. The best they can do now is integrate themselves into the Roland vdrum world... not overrun it.

                            Man, that's probably the most offtopic post i've made in my life. Please /ignore

                            Gabe Kangas
                            DM5, D4, PD80R, CY-15, CY-6, Visu-lite Ride, DauZ's, Random Pintech stuff, BBE 362.



                            • #15
                              Hey guys --

                              I might be new to the vdrum party (in fact my damn Hart Triggers are STILL on backorder), but I have been reading the book on the TD8 (which I did update as soon as I got) and have been pounding on the couple of pd7s I also purchased.

                              My question/suggestion on this: Isn't the polyphony of the td8 only 64 voices? Could you be running into this as a problem? I have been composing with my friend (a keyboard player) and the symptoms you describe (other than xtalk on the Gibralter) seem to echo (pardon the pun)issues we have had to combat for close to 20 years. I say this because the issue happens when you are "playing fast" and adding cymbals (more notes)...

                              Just a thought. I might be offbase, but I thought I would throw it out there...

                              Using Hart MegaPro with Roland TD8, amped by Roland KC-500