Wood or nylon tip?

[jimbo]

We're getting our V-Customs on Monday (according to Dwight at BPMmusic.com - excellent person & business to work with). I've played a little acoustic with nylon tips, mostly for cymbal definition, but what tip is better for mesh heads, with regard to feel, wear and tear on the heads, what the piezo may pick up better?

I'm also a bit concerned with tips of either material being rough enough to micro-shred the heads. The mesh looks a little like it's made of plastic sweater fabric that would be picked by stick tips that had a slight splinter, or, in the case of nylon tips, if you've dropped the stick on concrete and the tip has a rough, scratchy spot that could scratch plastic acoustic heads or scuff/micro-shred the mesh heads.
I read the post about not using felt beaters for a V-kick, and the nylon sides of our Pearl quad-beater have a tiny line/seam across. Could this line/seam wear the mesh excessively? (side question: I think using the side that strikes in a horizontal line will work best. Would you agree? Or should I get a beater with a rounded nylon striking surface? ) The V-Customs are being purchased by my church, and I'm the primary drummer, so I want to be a good steward of the kit, which was actually purchased with $$$ from a member who stepped up with a check when the need for drums was announced.
Lastly (believe it or not), who has any quick, simple tips for using these drums in church, with regard to getting the best sound out front? I'll be using a Roland KC-100 keyboard amp situated by me, mostly for my benefit, with a bit of the sound likely bleeding to the congregation, and we'll be running the kit through the main system for the congregation, with a mix perhaps coming through the KC-100, again for my benefit.
Thanks for letting me pick your collective brain.

Jim

[Arriguy]

Sounds like you are overly concerned about your stick selection. These heads are alot tougher than you give them credit for. Personally I use wood tips, simply because I heard the nylon tips could damage the head if they came off, but after a couple years experience on these heads, I tend to doubt that.
As far as your kick beater, the wear is on the felt beater not the head. You should look into a rubber beater. The felt wears away quickly and finds it's way inside the drum.

Hey, you wouldn't happen to be a member of the Church of The Chick-fil-A down there in Fayetteville would you?

[Boingo]

Welcome aboard Jimbo.

I haven't seen a TD-8 E-manual. I don't think Roland has one.

The heads are supertough. Not sure of the composition, maybe nylon, polyester, polypropylene or some kind of blend, but mine are in excellent shape after 3 yrs of pounding, errr, I mean, carefully executed strokes played with tasteful and exacting precision. I use wood and nylon but am partial to nylon. Use what you like and check them periodically.

Don't know about the kick because I use the KD-7 modified to an upright position. It works for me.

I don't usually proselytize, but could you send that drum kit buying member over my way? Our Church could use a set of V-cymbals and a new amp.

You don't say how large a room you play or if the band is depending much on your monitor to hear you, so it's hard to say for sure. Assuming the house equip. is adequate for the congregation, and your concern is just with the monitor, the KC-100 will most likely be weak. We use the KC-500 and I get numerous complaints that the band can't hear the kick or there isn't enough drive in the overall sound. You have the entire sound spectrum so you amp really has to work.

A lot depends on the volume of the rest of the band. We tend to be as loud as we can until the soundman complains that we are louder than the house. (musicians! what are ya gonna do wit dem?) We play for a 350-400 size crowd. If you only monitor at low volumes and the band is close together, the KC-100 might do the job.

As far as the mix running through the amp, that's an option. If your bandmates are relying on your monitor, that may not be good for them. Lately I have not been using headphones to monitor, but when I did, we ran the band (less the drums) to the mix in on our TD-10 and then the TD-10 mixed the drums with the house mix. There is an option to have the mix-in play through headphones only which is pretty cool. Pro: you can crank up the drums to how you like them mixed with the others for the HP's and the band hears just the drums thru the amp. Con: the drum/music mix you hear is not what anyone else hears when the drums are cranked in your phones - could be a problem for dynamics during low passages.

If you add something to the drum signal to enhance the sound, you might want to consider the BBE (482) sonic maximizer. It's sort of like an EQ but not exactly the same. It cleans up your sound, makes it a bit more crisp and removes the muddyness. It really helps project the sound. Cymbals are real crisp, kicks are more focused, snares are more defined. At first I wasn't wild about mine because it didn't sound all that drastic, but I can't get the same thing with my 4 band EQ and I did get some compliments the one time I took my kit on the road with them. You could run the signal thru the BBE and then to your amp and the house.

[Space Ace]

We have a set of V-Pro's with the KD 120 at our church. They have been in use for about 2 years now. They have been played for 6 services every weekend, and a practice on another week night. They have been played by 10-15 different drummers. Most bring their own kick pedal and beaters. Most are felt beaters. Most play with wood tip sticks. As far as I can tell the set has held up wonderfully, no real wear on the heads and just a rougher looking spot on the HH pad.

As for getting a good sound in the house that subject has been discussed before. Try this: http://www.vdrums.com/discussion/For...ML/000157.html
or this: http://www.vdrums.com/discussion/For...ML/000639.html

We have a large soundboard with lots of channels so we send the Kick and Snare on one output panned hard left and right, the hi-hat by itself, and the toms and cymbals on their own channel panned accordingly. The soundman can then make adjustments as needed for each song or the amount of people in the room. We usually send the sounds with very little effects or ambience. It took a couple of months to get all the bits and pieces nailed down to where we could get a good sound even if the drummer picked a different kit for a special song, or picked another snare 'cause they just don' like the way that one sounds (not exactly like their acoustic at home). If you have other drummers ask them how it sounded to them out in the audience, or have them play at a practice while you are in the back with the sound guy to work on some EQ and pan settings.

These things are built to be beat on with sticks and as Arriguy says, the heads are tough.

And as is the custom with all newcomers we say:

Welcome, use the xlnt search engine, and RTFM!

Scott

[animal]

get a bbe. I would never play live without now that I have one. You need to think about getting an extra pad for rim clicks. Essential in a church setting.

[Stixx777]

I only use nylon tips and if anyone plays my kit they have to use nylon too. There is a definate wear difference on the pads, wood tends to leave more of a mark then the nylon tips do. If you are getting a KD-120 or a KD-7 it will come with the plastic beater. I have had no problem with head wear at all. Still using the original heads which are a least 4 years old. First I want to say be patient with the drums. They may take a few weeks to get them tweaked for the room. What I did which seems to work great is: Get a stereo DI and run the XLR outs to the board and take the 1/4 outs and run them back to your apm. Also get a un-powered signal for a monitor mix and also send that to your amp. That way you can turn up the drum and monitor levels indepently to your liking not have to rely on the sound guy as much. Being able to turn up the drums in your monitor only without touching the house mix is a real benifit, you may also use the headphone mix into your amp instaed of the 1/4 outs of the DI box.(Which is what I am doing at the moment, remember the headphone signal is very very hot so be careful not to blow a speaker.

------------------
Ted H.
www.tocsinrocks.com

[jimbo]

Thanks for the help. I'm thankful for the site and all the info. Keep 'em coming.

Jim

[FloridaDrummer]

I'm using a nylon tip right now because I got a bad batch of wood tips and broke them after 2 or 3 hits. I swapped them out with nylon and haven't noticed any difference in wear.

[Marc.]

For electric drums I recommend electric sticks. Wireless ones are best.

[jimbo]

Just got the V's today and began assembly. Had to leave assembly partially completed and come home from the church to be a husband and daddy. There are a precious few things that are still more important than drumming. I'll add updates. Thanks again for all the help, some of which was in previous threads, had I looked before leaping. I *do* have an old pair of wireless sticks, but they're analog, not crystal-clear digital. I'll start $aving for the upgrade.

Jim

[CAH2112]

I just had this same issue at my Church. We are playing in the gym which has really bad accoustics. 2 weeks ago we played and I couldn't get anything to sound right. Last week I went in a couple hours early and set up a set just for the room. I didn't even start creating it until I got everything set up and ready to go. I copied the ROSEWOOD kit from the expansion card and started modifying it until the kit matched the room. When I got home I listened to it in my little drum room and can't belive how bad it sounds, but, in the gym it fit the bill. I also learned a lot about ambience and adjusting the EQs on all the drums. It was a good 2 hour lesson that was worth the time. Hope that helps, it helped me to realize that I can build a kit to match the romm rather than me trying to play a certain way to match that room.

I also wanted to second the idea of the extra pad for rim-clicks. I can't seem to get the cross stick feature to be reliable enough to use live so I set up one of the pads on my SPD-20 as a rim sound. That really helped.

[sycle1]

I have had my Vdrums session set for four months and have blown out my first bass drum head.
Does anyone know what I can do to save on bass drum head wear as I am a lead foot apparently.
All the best
cheers
sycle1