V-customs & acoustic snare

[mudyax]

A couple of threads in the archives have brushed up against this, but I don't see the answer I am seeking. Does anyone have any real experience playing acoustic snares with a v-kit? Is it possible/practical to use an acoustic snare with separate mic gear? My guess is no...given the volume of a traditional snare.

My motivation for asking is that I am currently playing a v-custom kit with a pacific 10x5.5" snare (10" nylon v-cust mesh head) triggered with a Trigger Perfect 210AP-S trigger. It's pretty cool really, but I am longing for a larger (and more realistic) snare surface and, despite the immense number of snare voices available in the TD-8 brain, I just can't ever seem to settle in on one that just gets me off...live or studio. I am constantly tweaking my snare patches. Am I just dreaming here?:>) Thanks a bunch!!

[Steveo the Devo]

I have been playing regularly with an acoustic snare for a couple of years now. It can be done! Your guess of 'no' is incorrect.
I like you have been disappointed with the snare sounds with the V's. I miss that 'take your head off' rim shot, the *CRACK* of a real snare and the sweet sound of a great cross stick.
The only thing that I would suggest is that you have a decent foldback/monitoring system as you will need to crank the kick and toms to the corresponding volume of the snare (which is pretty darn loud).
I also use all acoustic cymbals which works really well. I also mic just about everything in order to get a decent mix in the FOH.

[mudyax]

Hey Steveo,

Thanks so much for the feedback. I am very pleased to hear that the possibilities exist. I sorta figured *somebody* out there was managing it. But, my main concern was that it would require a large investment of $$$ to make it happen. I've already spent myself damned near to divorce in my pursuit of the "ultimate" kit. I am currently doing all in-ear monitoring, so I don't have to mess with any bulky monitoring gear. This could be a problem in terms of cranking up the volume. I work with a band right now that tries to remain pretty volume conscious..as we play a lot of smaller venues right now. These guys dig me drumming for them because I have such control over the kit volume with the v-custs (drummers always have a bad rep when it comes to volume!). I think more gear is definitely in order before I get too deeply into this...which means more $$$! Does it ever end? I definitely miss the original snare feel/sound though. I went with the pacific snare with mesh head and trigger for this reason...I thought I could reach a nice compromise. And it has worked pretty well. But, with my growing dissatisfaction with the TD-8 snare patches, I began thinking about the possibilities. When you say "foldback," to what are you referring? Acoustic cymbals, heh? That must be intense!? I have just purchased a set of the v-cymbals. I love them! Tell me more Thanks for the insight Mr. Devo.

[puttenvr]

Originally posted by c. jude:
... or you will need investigate another module (maybe ddrum where you could choose a sample of something close to what you are after)

Ya know I play ddrum .. ehh .. so it's easy for me to say: buy this one and your problems will be solved. But I don't.

I don't want to play an electronic snare and electronic cymbals live and in studio either. At home (for practicing) it's a different story. There, I can live with a decent snare and cymbal sound (and the ddrums even have the best samples I've heard) but live and in studio I still do miss all the playing possibilties and feel from the real thing.

From all parts of a drum kit the tom toms and bass drum are the most easy to copy electronically (if that's your goal; some drummers use e-drums for new sounds).
I think their sound is quite simple and you don't apply that much playing techniques on them. No positional sensing on the bass drum; no x-stick on the toms.

A real snare drum has that specific feel. The air inside the drum and around it. The resonance of the bottom head and shell. The buzzing of the snares. Every single change of your playing is translated 1 on 1 with a good acoustic snare drum. I never heard a e-snare which did the same. Had the same feel.

With cymbals the problems are even bigger. These are idiophones which can't be tuned, from which the sound can't be changed by putting a pinstripe head on it or piece of muffling tape. Or by using cast rims, RIMS, small tuning bolts or not.

No, cymbals just have their character inside the instrument self. And again: every single change in creativity and playing technique is translated into a sound. Sometimes cymbals sound different every time you touch them. That make cymbals so musically. Never heard that with an e-cymbal.

I've been plaing e-drums for quite a few years now. I had a lot of equipment, I learned a lot, loss a lot and ended up with a hybrid kit. My advice: skip the TD-8 snare, have a good acoustic one. Mike this acoustic snare or trigger it. And have the best of both worlds.

[mudyax]

Good stuff guys! I really appreciate (and benefit from) most the personal experiences everyone brings to these problems. It allows me to sit back and say I like that idea...don't like that one etc. So, very valuable. Mr. Jude you make good points about volume of the acoustics. That, of course, is the main problem and one of the main reasons I went vdrums (and, of course, versatility and ablity to contribute more to the musical creation process). My playing edrums is also the main reason for making it into my current project. There was much excitement about the possibilities when I auditioned. So, I have to keep that in mind as well. But, as the good puttenvr points out (and thank you also for taking the time to do so), the feel and sound reproduction of acoustic gear is unique. And, having come out of a long hiatus (as acoustic player) and been into electronics now for about 15 months, I have worked tirelessly to reproduce the feel and subtlties of acoustics (and have spent a TON of money along the way!) I really do miss the acoustic gear, but I don't miss the noise and headache associated with it. What's a player to do? Spend more money, I know Well, truthfully, I have been quite satisfied with the V's in general. And I have compromised to some extent by attempting to go with an acoustic snare with a mesh v head and trigger. It has worked very nicely. But, sometimes, getting the right "feel" and right "sound" to match is a task! Anyway, I'm rambling....thanks again for the feedback guys (and gals if you're in there)! I really appreciate it!

[mudyax]

Yea, great idea Chris. I hadn't thought of this. Probably because I am already splitting inputs like crazy to support my desire/need for cymbal number and symmetry. I am feeding 3 new Vcymbals (hats and another crash on the way) and 3 of the older hart dynamics cymbals. So, I would have to do some serious rethinking of my configuration or buy a TD-10, heh? (Jesus! My wife would kill me!)eek:

But, it's nice to have the idea planted in my mind for future planning. Truth be told...the Vcymbals are SO superior to the harts, that the harts are going in the trash as soon as I can afford all the Vs that I want. Does musical gear inspire greed in all musicians? I am warped!

Thanks again Chris...and everyone!

[Steveo the Devo]

Originally posted by mudyax:
Tell me more

It seems that the good Dr. (c.jude) has covered most of it. Any further questions feel free to ask!!

[mudyax]

Thanks Devo...and everyone else... I'll be back I'm sure. This is all great stuff! Nice to know there do exist possibilities...but, always depressing to consider that the possibilities=$$$. AAARRRGGGH! It's hell being a poor musician:O Rock on!