Help! Hart Cymbals Are Confusing

[Reverend Poppy]

I just got my Ecymballs II ride and two crashes. I'm confused as can be, and they came with very little documentation.

Problem One: The ride only has one jack. Am I supposed to use a "Y" to split it into two, in order to separate the ride/bell sounds?

Problem Two: The crashes don't trigger worth a damn. I have to really pound directly above the trigger to get them to go. I know I shouldn't be (or have to be) doing this.

I'm using them with a TDW-1 expanded TD-10.

Thanks.

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Reverend Poppy

[Reverend Poppy]

Crash: I just went in and adjusted my sensititivy up to 32 and threashold down to 2. Makes a little difference, but still triggers very sporadically.

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Reverend Poppy

[szvook]

Sorry mate, no experience with the TD-10 and Hart.

This might sound redundant but make sure that your pad type is set to 10A, check the sensitivity, velocity cure, and gain.

Contact Hart to get some feed back.


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szvook

[Jgel]

Poppy, I was waiting to hear about your ride. I can't wait till you get it working. Anyway, HART has a settings page with help on their site. I was just looking at it last night.

[Jgel]

Poppy,
To save you time, here is what it states...

ROLAND MODULES (TD8, TD10)

1. PAD TYPE -Choose 10A for all HDI products except ACUSNARE./12A.
2. V-CURVE -Linear
3. GAIN - Set Gain or Sensitivity.

That's it! Don't try to overcomplicate things. This setting has worked very well with many products in many situations. The only problem I have incurred is at lower head tensions on drums, sometimes a "spike" will come through or a "double trigger" will occur. Raise the "MASK TIME" up 1 notch (4,8,12,16) from the default of 12 to 16. This should do it. If you have altered any other settings, you may need to initialize (reset) your module.

[Jgel]

There is also this...

GAIN (or SENSITIVITY)

If you are a hard hitter and use heavy sticks, you should set the GAIN lower so that you can achieve full dynamic range (most variation between soft and loud notes). Likewise, if you play with 3A's and are a traditional jazz player, Gain should be higher as you may never play hard enough to use the full range. When setting GAIN parameter, the meter in the module which shows you how hard you are hitting the trigger device should barely peak out when you are striking the device as hard as you will ever play it. Just like recording with a VU meter.

VELOCITY CURVE

I personally always use a LINEAR CURVE. This means that the velocity at which you strike the trigger device is directly corelative to the output on a MIDI scale. ie: 3 in = 3 out. 100 in = 100 out. A non-linear curve might be 1-30 in = 30 out , 30-90 in = 60 out . and 90-127 in =90 out. Based on this curve, you only have 3 "volumes" (30,60,90) for a given sound no matter how much variation you play with.

[szvook]

Good homework

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szvook

[Reverend Poppy]

Thanks Jgel! That fixed the crashes. I looked around Hart's site, but couldn't find anything.

I got the ride problem solved too. I'm just waiting for some connectors, then I'll be all set.

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Reverend Poppy

[Jgel]

Poppy,
Did you ever get the Ride working the way that you wanted. Let me/us know. Thanks again.
Jason
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[Drooling Dog]

Nope. They tell me it can be done, but it never happened for me. As great as the Hart cymbals are, the documentation that comes with them is a little weak. I'm sure the seasoned V-drummers here would have no problem with them, but they're way over this newbie's head.

Since I bought a Roland V-Cym Hi-hat, I moved my old hi-hat to the right side of the kit. I programmed the center as a closed hi-hat and the edge as the ride's bell sound.

Keep in mind though, that I was trying to get the two separate sounds from the ride using only one jack. I value my extra crash too much to devote an Aux jack to it. I'm told it can be done, but I had no luck doing it.

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Drooling Dog

(formerly Reverend Poppy)

[This message has been edited by Drooling Dog (edited July 08, 2001).]

[hdi]

Both HART ride cymbals are true dual piezo triggers. Both are set up in the same way.
There are 2 options:
1. Plug a stereo (trs) cable in to the cymbal. At the end of the cable that plugs in to the module, install the HDI cymbal adapter plug (ECSTAD). This is and adapter that bridges the two (trs tip and ring) outputs to one mono out. They are provided with our drum sets in the cable package which comes with all adapters and cables necessary for hook up with any module. This adapter can also be purchased at Radio Shack for $2.00 (part #274-360b) This can then be plugged in to the Ride channel. Go into the instruments section and choose an "X" ride sound. ie: jaxx ride, jazz bell, jazz x. The X samples have both body and bell sounds. Adjust the sensitivity for the cymbal so that it picks up all of your notes and achieves the dynamic qualities to suit your playing. If the bell sound transition is occurring when you play the body hard, you may then adjust your v curve so that the bell sound occurs only when you hit the bell. This set up works EXTREMELY well and is very natural from a playing stand point.

2. Plug a stereo (trs) cable in to the cymbal. At the end of the cable that plugs in to the module, install the HDI cymbal Y cable adapter plug (HW-FYCBL), also refered to as an FMM (Female/Male/Male) cable. This is and adapter that bridges the two (trs tip and ring) outputs to two mono outs. The FMM adapter has a short lead and a long lead with 1/4" male plugs on the ends. The long lead is the "tip" or body and the short lead is the bell. The long lead can then be plugged in to the Ride channel and the short lead into an aux channel or any available open input (channel). You do not need to change the ride sound unless you want a different ride on that particular set. You may then pick any bell (or instrument) sound you want for the bell input. Adjust the sensitivity for the cymbal so that it picks up all of your notes and achieves the dynamic qualities to suit your playing. If the bell sound transition is occurring when you play the body hard, you may then adjust your threshold on the bell input so that the bell sound occurs only when you hit the bell. This is the optimum set up which allows the user total control of the trigger parameters and sound for each trigger (body and bell), but requires 2 inputs OR a true TRS (two separate channels) AUX channel.

If you are using an AUX input on ANY module for a second sound, pad type is irrelevant, as long as you use recommended settings. It is important to note that even though Roland sets come pre-programmed to work with their gear, It has been my experience that once an individual user becomes familiar with the module, they almost always tweek it to refine settings for their own taste.

PH

[darrenmc]

Originally posted by hdi
Both HART ride cymbals are true dual piezo triggers. Both are set up in the same way.
There are 2 options:
1. Plug a stereo (trs) cable in to the cymbal. At the end of the cable that plugs in to the module, install the HDI cymbal adapter plug (ECSTAD).......

2. Plug a stereo (trs) cable in to the cymbal. At the end of the cable that plugs in to the module, install the HDI cymbal Y cable adapter plug (HW-FYCBL), also refered to as an FMM (Female/Male/Male) cable. ....... This is the optimum set up which allows the user total control of the trigger parameters and sound for each trigger (body and bell), but requires 2 inputs OR a true TRS (two separate channels) AUX channel.

PH

On a TD-6, would Tom2/Aux (a single "dual mono" input) or Tom3/Tom4 (ditto) qualify as a "true TRS (two seperate channels) aux channel"? In other words, could I plug the Hart Ride into one of those jacks and have completely independent control over bell and ride sounds?

Thanks,
Darren