Bass Drum Rebound--KD-120/80 vs acoustic.

[stevekaux]

Let me first thank the people who created this web site. I've played Rolands for five years now, and wish I'd found this site sooner.

I currently am using a KD-7 for bass. I hadn't played an acoustic set for years, until a couple of weeks ago. I was amazed at the rebound that I got from an acoustic bass drum. I had always thought that I wasn't capable of getting two quick "ba-bump" strokes from my kick, but I was able to do this rather easily with an acoustic bass drum. So it seems time to upgrade the bass pad.

For those who regularly play acoustic drums, is the rebound of a KD-120 or KD-80 comparable to an acoustic kick drum? Is there a major difference between the 120 and 80? I've briefly tried out both, but they didn't seem especially bouncy, but they may not have been tensioned correctly. Am I assuming right that these should be tensioned fairly loosely, to get a nice trampoline effect?

Also welcomed are any comments about Hart or Pintech kicks, as well.

[rus]

Originally posted by stevekaux:
I had always thought that I wasn't capable of getting two quick "ba-bump" strokes from my kick, but I was able to do this rather easily with an acoustic bass drum.

FWIW, I am able to get faster triplet strokes (ba-da-bump) on a kd-7 than I ever got on an acoustic kick... maybe I'm a stupendous superman of a drummer, maybe I've got my kick pedel adjusted well, but those are the facts.

rus

------------------
\oo/_ _\oo/

[This message has been edited by rus (edited January 09, 2001).]

[Boingo]

Maybe Rus is a stupendous superman of a drummer (and maybe I'm Buddy Rich) .

I had a Pearl 101P with my 22" Pearl. I've played better but it was ok. I got bummed out when I switched it to the KD-7. I especially hated the bent beater (bb). Same problem as you. I made a stand and mounted the KD-7 to use as an upright. Much better, but not the same as acoustic. Then I have played two other pedals using the KD-7 bb and couldn't believe how much better they were than mine. I've was thinking of upgrading pedals. Then someone adjusted one of the other pedals and suddenly I hated it. Bottom Line: I've concluded it's got a lot to do with adjustment. Something else I've done to improve my Pearl modified KD-7 recently is to add a small weight to the beater (just under the felt). That also improved things. You should use a felt beater on the KD-7 and the one I had appears to be too light. Weight/balance of the beater seems to be important.

RUS: what pedal are you using?

Steve: same question - also, I would think more like medium to med-tight tension would get better rebound on a mesh head. Loose mesh seems mushy (say that 3 times fast).

[BINARY]

Welcome aboard, buddy.

Yeah, you can definately get some bounce with the KD 120 and the KD/80.
Are you near a guitar center where you can give them a try?

BINARY

[puttenvr]

My expiercence: in general you will have to play more accurate on a bass drumpad. I think this is because the ghost notes which aren't always heard on a acoustic bass drum but do give a trigger on a bass drumpad. Or: if you leave the bass drum pedal beater against the drumhead after strikinge it will give another trigger.

If you like the overall feel is a question of taste.

[rus]

Originally posted by Boingo:
Maybe Rus is a stupendous superman of a drummer (and maybe I'm Buddy Rich) .

RUS: what pedal are you using?

Tama Iron Cobra, Power Glide... The ONLY way to fly. If I had been playing e-drums when I bought this pedal, I might have gone with the flexi-glide version (kevlar strap rather than a chain, might feel better) but I've got this one setup so it feels good.

rus

------------------
\oo/_ _\oo/

[This message has been edited by rus (edited January 09, 2001).]

[Marc.]

Hi Steve and welcome aboard. When I demo'd the V-Pros & Customs, I immediately knew the KD-7 was out and the KD-80/120 was in. The primary reason was I needed silence because the set was going to be on the 2nd floor and I just knew this thing was going to sound like someone pounding on the floor with a sledge hammer. Also the demo setup was poor and the KD-7 kept sliding all over the place (an easily fixable problem).

As for "feel", it was satisfactory, but was definitely not like a bass drum to me. The people are correct about the many factors regarding settings, tension, pedals, etc. I have made the required adjustments to satisfy my needs and I have the desired effect or "feel". Now the response allows me to cover LZ's "Good Times, Bad Times" percussion part. I learned the part on a single kick set when I was a kid and even though I evolved to double-kick sets which makes the part easier, I retained the single-kick habit. It is definitely a nice capability to have when you need the other appendage for the high-hat. The KD-7 has been relegated to standard trigger-effects duties (gong, tympani, etc., and a small array of offending noise effects)

____________
-

[Blades]

Because I play both the custom and pro kits, I've had exposure to the kd80 and the kd-7. I always take my kd-7 with me. I really did not care for the response of the kd80 AT ALL! It was very difficult to control for me...even on the looser settings, it had too much bounce. There was no way that I'd be able to "bury the beater" into it. Double triggered or even triple. It felt like when you have front and back heads, no pillow, and no hole in the front head. Almost like it was pushing back as well as not absorbing the hit.

I think with the reverse beater, you make up for whatever rebound you lose in the speed that the beater can get to the pad, due to the downward pull of gravity rather than puching against that gravity as you do with an acoustic/upright.

I think I think too much.

I can easily accomplish the same thing on the kd-7 and probably a bit mnore than I can with a standard kick. I live for double bass drum hits. I like to double stroke roll between the hi-hat with right hand and bass drum on right foot. Very cool modification of the standard Led Zep kick lick (say that 5 times fast). I can easily and cleanly get this with the kd-7. Forget it on the kd80...It'd just be a smattering of kick drum hits for me.

There's my $.02
redbrick

[stevekaux]

Thanks, all, for the responses/advise.

I have a Pearl pedal (unknown model, chain drive), and fiddled with it for a bit this evening. I wasn't able to improve it much, if at all. I also have a DW 5000 electronic pedal (all in one, with a hard rubber trigger surface), which feels considerably different, but still the same lack of rebound I want.

I guess I'm going to have to thoroughly test drive the KD-120/80s with my pedal (or maybe consider a new pedal such as the Tama Iron Cobra double pedal :-), and not rush into anything.

Another option I'm considering would be to buy a cheapo used acoustic bass drum, get a mesh head, and use a trigger. I read a review of the Pearl Rhythm Traveller drumset (which comes with mesh and regular heads), and the reviewer tried using the mesh heads and triggers, with favorable results. I'm not sure how cost effective this would be, but it's a possibility.

[BINARY]

You know what I've always wondered about (and posted about once)? The Pintech bass trigger, the bent beater one. I tried the upright, but it was like hitting a brick wall, and extremely noisy.

The bent beater ones have only one input, so you'd have to get a splitter for double-kick, but they are also wide enough to use with a double bass pedal.
They're also only 30 bucks, as opposed to Rolands 165 for the KD-7.

The battle rages in my head between the

"you get what you pay for"

argument where I waste 60 bucks trying them out, and the

"holy **** they're one sixth the price"

argument, where I know that the components total about 12 dollar TOPS, and that Roland is just ripping me off because they can.

I'm tempted to just say to hell with it and take the 60 dollar risk. Has anyone tried them? Do they work?

BINARY