Building a "virtual" FSR switch to get extra IN's and V-Cymbal DISECTION story!!!

[Snills]

Maybe old news to some but,
I've been experimenting, and heres what I've found regarding how the TD10 works with FSR\piezo triggers?

Setup: I'm using a PD100 with a trigger type set to "crB". Then, plugged into the TD10 tom1 input, is a Y cable that splits up the TIP and SLEEVE (PIEZO and FSR) of a standard stereo cable. The 1\4" TIP portion of the Y cable is plugged into my PD100 (piezo signal). The 1\4" SLEEVE cable (FSR signal) is simply sitting on the head of the PD100....

I then created a switch by wrapping a wire around the tip end of the SLEEVE cable that I could short to the GROUND of the same cable.

So if I tap on the wire so it contacts ground, the TD10 thinks an FSR was just shorted AND, since the plug that I'm tapping is sitting on the PD100, the PD100's Piezo is also triggered at the same time which now triggers a RIM sound. Cool...two Pads\Sounds per input!

So in short...

1. For a Rim sound to occur:
The TD10 expects to sense an instantaneous closed, then opened switch from the "sleeve" of a stereo cable (FSR being struck). If this happens then the piezo signal("tip" of stereo cable) triggers a RIM sound.

2. If the FSR or switch is closed for more than an instantaneous time, then all notes are turned off until struck again...choked

BTW: The only place I can find a real FSR (force sensitive Resistor) is at http://www.interlinkelec.com/ . They sell an FSR kit which has 16 assorted FSR's for $80 .

Can anyone give me info about building the "virtual" FSR switch that I've read about in this forum?

V-CYMBAL DISECTION: I dis-assembled my V-cymbal and was suprised at how simple the constructed was. All I saw was two RIM FSR's (strike and choke) and one Piezo connected to a stereo jack.

I also took a look at the ride cymbal.
It was the same except it had one more FSR around the Bell which was then covered by an upside down plastic bowl, in the shape of the bell, when you hit the plastic bell, the bowls "Rim" touch the round FSR and tells the TD10 to play a Bell sound.

NOW I KNOW WHY SOME OF OUR BELLS ARE HARD TO TRIGGER, THE GAP BETWEEN THE BOWLS RIMS AND THE FSR IS TO BIG....

TRY THIS!
SIMPLY PRESS DOWN ON YOUR BELL AND TAP THE BELL, YOU CAN TRIGGER IT WITH SOFT TAPS. IF YOU PRESS TO HARD YOU'LL CHOKE THE CYMBAL AS EXPECTED.

Not sure how to fix the Bell issue...yet.

See ya
Bill

[BtnkBndt]

Hey Bill,

I've experimented with the fsr issue quite a bit. Tapeswitch.com sells ribbon switches which work great for this application. I have mounted one to my visu-lite hat and ride to get the edge and bell sounds respectively. Funny that Roland actually did the bell the same way I had mine (ripped the bell off, added a softer foam between with the fsr underneath the edge). These switches also work great mounted across the playing surface of Pintech nimrods/dingbats. The module must recieve both the fsr and piezo signals simultaneously (did I spell that right?) which takes some creative Y adapter wiring. One pad sends just a piezo signal the other piezo/fsr. Has worked great for me.

I've also done some experimenting with conductive foam, the stuff just doesn't hold up at all.

On your bell issue, is there enough room to add a donut shaped shim of some sort? I sure would like to see one of these things internally myself.

Anyways...Good Luck,
Michael

[Snills]

Thanks for the info BtnkBndt, I've read alot of your posts. The tapeswitch looks great!

BTW has anyone figured out how to preserve positional sensing when doing this? It seems like one of the ride cymbal trigger types may have been working, but it didn't sound quite the same. I assume pos. sensing only needs 1 input.

>I sure would like to see one of these >things internally myself.

I'll try to take some pics of it tonight and post them. The bell looks to be very hard to get to. It was easy to pull out the 2 plastic rivits, then peel the rubber and adhesive off the edge and bow, but when I started to exposed the bell it wouldn't pull up as easy. Thats where I stopped. So far the cymbal seems to be as good as new after putting it back together. Luckily the FSR connections are not soldered, just flat conducters held by clips.

Thanks again BtnkBndt

Bill

[Snills]

>BTW, the CY-15R ride uses two TD-10Ex >inputs to transmit the info from that other >additional (edge) FSR, carrying positional >sensitivity info, as well.

Hi Feefer,
Are you sure? Because, from what I'm seeing, the Piezo is the only player in velocity switching on the bow. If I unplug all but the the tip of the ride input, I still get velocity switching on the bow. Makes sence to me because the FSR's aren't even activated when playing bow sounds. One FSR is for Bell, one is for edge, the third is for choke.

Just wanted to clarify.

Bill

[zekedrum]

Will the Cy14c work for a two zone ride I was thinking of getting one for ride but have been told it want track as well. I was thinking it was thew same cymbal as the cy15r except they add another trigger .I don't have a open trigger input for it since it takes two trigger inputs.

[jrcel]

My Drumkat uses FSR sensors in a matrix array and they do break down over time, according to Interlink's website(the makers of FSR) you'll get aproximately 10 million activations. I've had mine for over 6 years with no detereoration of performance, they are more sensitive than piezo's because you can lower the threshold to next to nothing with no danger of crosstalk. You must physicaly make contact with it to activate it.

[jrcel]

I also use a DTX V2.0 kit, inside the Yamaha pads(I don't know about the Roland stuff), there is a small circut board that I assumed handled the switching job. You can set the DTX rim switch to "variable" as well as mute hi, mute low or set it to a specific velocity to always play at. On the DTX, you don't have to play the rim and surface simultaniously to sound the rim. Like I said, I'm not familiar with the Roland stuff, other than you must hit the rim and center at the same time. You are correct though, on the Kat, you can press on the pads to hold notes which is not possible on the Roland/Yamaha rims.

[Snills]

Just to be clear...
You do not have to hit the RIM and HEAD at the same time. That would be a bit useless.

You either:
A. Hit the HEAD, and the piezo vibrates and triggers the assigned "head" sound.

B. Or hit the RIM (fsr). This same RIM hit also vibrates the piezo that's in the head at the same moment. The FSR basically sets a "status flag" in the module, which tells it to play a RIM sound when the piezo triggers.

I just didn't want someone to think that you actually had to tap the HEAD at the same time as the RIM. Some people are under that impression, especially with the TD10 snare.

Bill

[jrcel]

I was talking about the PD9 and PD7 specifically, which are piezo, membrane switch, not the PD120, which is a dual piezo type pad. This is the case with the TD7 brain, I don't know about the TD10/8/6 brains. BTW the stuff on the Hart site comes from Kat literature.

[BtnkBndt]

Yes, I agree that Roland doesn't actually use fsr technology. Velocity and positional are both determined by the signal sent from the piezo. Switching between the head and rim is done via a simple switching mechanism. As for not needing to hit the head and rim simultaneously, as long as the module recieves the slightest signal from the head piezo while hitting the rim (membrane switch) the assigned rim sound will be triggered. Try triggering the rim sound without the head piezo and you will get nothing (wire just a membrane switch to the ring/sleeve).

If you actually want to Y one input to two seperate triggering devices in two seperate places on your kit it would take one piezo trigger (tip/sleeve) the second trigger would need a switch(ring/sleeve) and a piezo (tip/sleeve) to get the rim sound. This will give you two actual pads on one input. BTW, even the snare input cannot be truely Y'd. Both head and rim piezos must be triggered simultaneously to trigger rim.