Click coming thru

[cproctor]

Hi all,

I have a wierd problem occurring.... When I am playing with a click coming in thru the mix in, it comes out the speaker even tho I've set it up for "headphones only". Actually, I don't hear it if I have the mix in volume low, but if I turn it up close to half then it bleeds thru. Can someone help me with this. Or is there some other solution? I need some volume in order to hear the click over the speaker. Thanks!

Chris

[Louis]

Hey Chris - I also use a click track with my band, except I use the metronome that is inside the TD-10. I've found it bleeds through the direct outputs, but doesn't seem to bleed thru the master outputs.

I think there have been numerous posts about signal bleed with the TD-10. Sometimes it's an effects or ambience setting, while other times it's an actual product shortcoming.

Can you explain a little bit about how your situation is set up? Where are you recieving the click-track from? Are you also recieving music from the mix in? Are you starting/stopping the songs? I know the questions aren't directly related to the bleeding problem, but depending on how you're situation is set up, I might have a work around for ya.

[cproctor]

Hi Louis,

Well, to answer your questions, I am receiving the click from a Roland keyboard. I play with a praise band at my church and sometimes we have a midi track that I have to play with because it contains a big orchestral track or something special that we can't play live. I hate playing with the thing, but it's really helped my timing. I've had to play with it (not every week) for about 5 years now! Anyway, I have the click coming into my mix in channel and I've set the mix in to "headphones only", but like I said earlier, unless I have it turned way down, it bleeds thru. Thanks for your input!

Chris

Originally posted by Louis:
Hey Chris - I also use a click track with my band, except I use the metronome that is inside the TD-10. I've found it bleeds through the direct outputs, but doesn't seem to bleed thru the master outputs.

I think there have been numerous posts about signal bleed with the TD-10. Sometimes it's an effects or ambience setting, while other times it's an actual product shortcoming.

Can you explain a little bit about how your situation is set up? Where are you recieving the click-track from? Are you also recieving music from the mix in? Are you starting/stopping the songs? I know the questions aren't directly related to the bleeding problem, but depending on how you're situation is set up, I might have a work around for ya.

[Louis]

Ok..here goes..

I drew up a simplified picture of the technical layout for our band, ignoring the guitarist, basist, violinist, etc..

I play with a click track though our entire set. It was odd at first but I agree, after doing it for 9 months my timing has gotten much much better. Anyway..

Every song has some sequenced keyboard parts in it, like what you do with that one song. All the songs are chained together in the keyboard so that when one is done, the next one cues up. What starts the song is me pressing a start/stop pedal that is connected to the keyboard. See the diagram:
http://www.3sks.com/louis/studio.jpg

The important parts are in blue. Notice the foot switch next to the drums. I press that and the keyboard starts the song. We have a midi cable going from the keyboard OUT to the TD10 IN. This sends my TD10 a midi clock signal. The clock signal tells the metronome inside the TD10 when to click, and at the correct tempo. I set the clock on the TD10 to EXTERNAL, which gives the keyboard control over the metronome timing.

I set the metronome on the TD10 to headphone-only. Now, to hear the rest of the band, our mixer sends me a private mix with everyone else except myself, because naturally I can already hear the myself from the headphone output.

There are some issues - I MUST use the master outputs for my audio signal. The metronome bleeds into the direct outs, and when playing at a club with 10000 watts, I can't have them hearing a little metronome during the quiet parts. This means I must be very careful about setting the levels for the various drums and cymbals within each kit. We have cranked the PA up with this setup and cannot hear the metronome bleeding through the master outputs.


Also, and this is a big drag.. I cannot use ANY patterns with the TD10. If I assign a pattern to a pad and strike it, the pad acts as a start/stop, which restarts the metronome in the TD10. So if I hit a PD9 inbetween two clicks, the metronome restarts there, and then the timing gets off.

The way to get around both problems is this: Have a separate drum machine/metronome, such as the Alesis SR16 ($200 US). The keyboard controls the SR16, and the SR16 sends the click to the mixer. You plug your headphones into the MIXER, not the TD10. In your headphones you create a custom mix that has the click, your drums, and everyone else. Hopefully the mixer doesn't bleed the click track into the main PA. This takes a somewhat good mixer to separate a signal to the headphones and not to the PA.

Or, if you don't need a band or drum mix in the headphones, you can just hook your headphones up to the SR16 drum machine and hear nothing but a click. Since the SR16 isn't hooked up to anything else except the midi cable from the keyboard and your headphones, there is nowhere for it to leak to.

Of course, this would all be fixed if the darn TD10 just didn't bleed. What a drag.

Good luck, whichever path you choose.

[drumser]

Louis,

I noticed in your diagram that you have a extra PD9 by your lower toms. Are you using that as an extra cymbal or just for program changes.

Please explain how use use the AUX in the TD-10 for the extra cymbal sound.

Thanks

------------------
Drumser

[Louis]

I have been using it as a 'china' cymbal. It is mounted on a cymbal arm, pretty high up, and at a very steep, nearly vertical angle.

It's plugged into 11.
Just press "Setup", and then "Trigger" (F1)
In here you need to configure the pad to be recognized as a PD9, and tell it what type of mount it is on. You can also set the velocity curve, the sensitivity, and other related settings here.

Once that's set up, go back to your drum kits. Pres "Inst" and then tap on the pad. You should then be able to dial in whatever sound you want.

(The diagram doesn't show my complete layout. I have several visu-lite cymbals plugged into a D4, which is MIDI'd up to the TD10 and plays cymbals on the percussion part. I've ordered a copule more Visu-lites, and when I get it all setup I'll post some pics)

[cproctor]

WOW!! That's pretty cool, Louis! Thanks for the great tips! We've been dabbling in midi a little, but we've ran into a few roadblocks along the way. I told the keyboard player and he's going to look into how to send the clock signal to my TD10. I assume it's probably pretty straight forward and is already a part of the track, right? Anyway, I'll have to do some reasearch and figure out how to set my metronome to EXTERNAL. Anyway, thanks for all the help!

Chris

[drumser]

Originally posted by Louis:
I have been using it as a 'china' cymbal. It is mounted on a cymbal arm, pretty high up, and at a very steep, nearly vertical angle.

It's plugged into 11.
Just press "Setup", and then "Trigger" (F1)
In here you need to configure the pad to be recognized as a PD9, and tell it what type of mount it is on. You can also set the velocity curve, the sensitivity, and other related settings here.

Once that's set up, go back to your drum kits. Pres "Inst" and then tap on the pad. You should then be able to dial in whatever sound you want.

(The diagram doesn't show my complete layout. I have several visu-lite cymbals plugged into a D4, which is MIDI'd up to the TD10 and plays cymbals on the percussion part. I've ordered a copule more Visu-lites, and when I get it all setup I'll post some pics)

Thanks Louis,

The extra cymbal on the right side is really a plus. Also not to "y" cable off the othe pad is nice so you could assign any sound you want.

Can the same assignment work for aux 12 as well as 11?



------------------
Drumser

[Louis]

Most certainly

[cproctor]

Originally posted by Louis:

Every song has some sequenced keyboard parts in it, like what you do with that one song. All the songs are chained together in the keyboard so that when one is done, the next one cues up. What starts the song is me pressing a start/stop pedal that is connected to the keyboard. See the diagram:
http://www.3sks.com/louis/studio.jpg

The important parts are in blue. Notice the foot switch next to the drums. I press that and the keyboard starts the song. We have a midi cable going from the keyboard OUT to the TD10 IN. This sends my TD10 a midi clock signal. The clock signal tells the metronome inside the TD10 when to click, and at the correct tempo. I set the clock on the TD10 to EXTERNAL, which gives the keyboard control over the metronome timing.

I set the metronome on the TD10 to headphone-only. Now, to hear the rest of the band, our mixer sends me a private mix with everyone else except myself, because naturally I can already hear the myself from the headphone output.

There are some issues - I MUST use the master outputs for my audio signal. The metronome bleeds into the direct outs, and when playing at a club with 10000 watts, I can't have them hearing a little metronome during the quiet parts. This means I must be very careful about setting the levels for the various drums and cymbals within each kit. We have cranked the PA up with this setup and cannot hear the metronome bleeding through the master outputs.


Also, and this is a big drag.. I cannot use ANY patterns with the TD10. If I assign a pattern to a pad and strike it, the pad acts as a start/stop, which restarts the metronome in the TD10. So if I hit a PD9 inbetween two clicks, the metronome restarts there, and then the timing gets off.

The way to get around both problems is this: Have a separate drum machine/metronome, such as the Alesis SR16 ($200 US). The keyboard controls the SR16, and the SR16 sends the click to the mixer. You plug your headphones into the MIXER, not the TD10. In your headphones you create a custom mix that has the click, your drums, and everyone else. Hopefully the mixer doesn't bleed the click track into the main PA. This takes a somewhat good mixer to separate a signal to the headphones and not to the PA.

Or, if you don't need a band or drum mix in the headphones, you can just hook your headphones up to the SR16 drum machine and hear nothing but a click. Since the SR16 isn't hooked up to anything else except the midi cable from the keyboard and your headphones, there is nowhere for it to leak to.

Of course, this would all be fixed if the darn TD10 just didn't bleed. What a drag.

Good luck, whichever path you choose.

Hi Louis,

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I have a question for you. I know nothing about the keyboard and even less about midi, but you said that the keyboard sends a midi clock signal to the TD10 and controls the tempo of the click. Is this automatic on the part of the keyboard? In other words, if we're playing a midi track, and I have a cable running from keyboard midi out to my midi in will I automatically get the clock signal, or does the keyboardist have to do something to send it to me?
Also, do I have to have the click on at all time to get the proper tempo or does the TD10 somehow know when to start the click?
And last but not least how do I set the clock on the TD10 to EXTERNAL?
Enough questions? ha ha. THanks for all your help!!

Chris