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  • TD3 Midi Error - partial lock up

    My TD3 is displaying 'Midi Error' and preventing me for changing any settings. I would like advise on how to fix. Let me give some details.

    The TD3 powers up and each pad will output sound while the MIDI Error scrolls across the LCD. Pushing any button will cause the scrolling message to restart, but the button will not do what its supposed to.
    There is a very small time (<.5sec) window when I power on the device where the buttons do work properly. I can rapidly press the change kit button and get up to drum kit #4 before it locks up. I can also turn on the click, which will sound, but will not shut off until the system is powered off.
    I cannot do a system reset because of the .5sec thing. I hold the '+' and '-' button and power on, the Rest message scrolls once then MIDI error starts scrolling before I can get it to reset.

    Triggering lag - when playing with the Midi Error scrolling the notes seem to get jammed up. If I pay too fast, the system misses some beets then squeezes them in a second or two later. It seems like there is a buffer overrun.

    Midi output - When I connect the TD3 to a computer via Midi, it is constantly sending 'FE' through its Midi out. Striking a pad will output a Midi string from which I can identify the HEX for the Midi note that I have assigned to the pad. I don't think that the device should be sending a midi out without a pad triggering.

    I have tried disconnecting all of the triggers but still get the error. I've also tried to send a new SysX. I couldn't find a TD3 backup online so I tried a TD6 (it didn't work). If someone has a SysX for a TD3, I'd like to try it.

    A Roland repair guy said that there is a test mode, but I don't know how to access.

    other info:
    My house was hit with a power surge (lightning?) last month which knocked out my HVAC system and the DSL modem. The surge could have muddled up the processor, but the TD3 was off and plugged into a surge protector which was also off - So the drum brain was isolated from the house electrical. The drums were sitting idle for a month before the surge, but were working properly when idled. I think the surge is a red herring because there were 2 disconnected switched between the TD3 and the electrical. I bring it up because it was the only major event between when the drums worked and the Midi error. Iíve also opened the TD3 and find no burn marks or obvious failed components.

  • #2
    TD-3 Bulk Dump

    I don't know what the cause of your error is, but I do have a TD-3 bulk dump file that you can use. The attached backup was made after a factory reset, so it will restore all trigger and kit settings to the factory defaults.

    Also, you might be able to make your own backup if you follow the steps on page 62 of your owners manual. Basically, you do the following:
    1) Turn the module off and connect the MIDI-Out jack to your computer's MIDI-Input
    2) Press and hold the TD-3's "DRUM KIT" button, then turn the power while continuing to hold the "DRUM KIT" button.
    3) Release the "DRUM Kit" when the module displays "bulk duMP"
    4) The module should then display "ALL". At this point, you can start the transmission by pressing the "Drum Kit" button.
    5) the TD-3 should display "dNP" while it is transmitting data.

    I hope this helps.

    -SD-
    Attached Files
    Last edited by SiliconDrummer; 06-20-09, 11:27 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      You're not the first person to experience a strange TD-3 "MIDI ERR" recently, and I still wonder if a bunch of the oldest TD-3 modules now over five years old have just become due for a new battery: TD-3 says: midi err

      The constant 'FE' sent to MIDI Out is "Active Sensing" and quite normal for all Roland modules: http://www.midi.org/techspecs/midimessages.php (Bottom of Table 2)

      Bruce

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BarT View Post
        You're not the first person to experience a strange TD-3 "MIDI ERR" recently, and I still wonder if a bunch of the oldest TD-3 modules now over five years old have just become due for a new battery: TD-3 says: midi err

        The constant 'FE' sent to MIDI Out is "Active Sensing" and quite normal for all Roland modules: http://www.midi.org/techspecs/midimessages.php (Bottom of Table 2)

        Bruce
        So exactly what does replacing a battery in a TD-3 entail? I do not have this problem yet, so should I prepare? And how would I do that? Once it goes down and the battery is replaced, will the factory kits and sounds still be there or will there be some sort of download of factory kits that will have to take place?
        8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
        http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by fulrmr(Daniel) View Post
          So exactly what does replacing a battery in a TD-3 entail? I do not have this problem yet, so should I prepare? And how would I do that?
          I don't know; no one's done it yet as far as I know. I was just guessing that it would be similar to all other Roland modules.


          Originally posted by fulrmr(Daniel) View Post
          Once it goes down and the battery is replaced, will the factory kits and sounds still be there or will there be some sort of download of factory kits that will have to take place?
          All factory stuff would remain. You'd only lose any tweaks to kits or settings if you didn't have a bulk dump MIDI backup.


          Bruce

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BarT View Post
            I don't know; no one's done it yet as far as I know. I was just guessing that it would be similar to all other Roland modules.

            All factory stuff would remain. You'd only lose any tweaks to kits or settings if you didn't have a bulk dump MIDI backup.

            Bruce
            When you perform a dump does it erase everything in the module or just copy it? Can I bulk dump to a folder in my PC? The only MIDI interface that I have is my FireBox. Can I perform the dump through it and Firewire it to my PC instead of USB?
            8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
            http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

            Comment


            • #7
              About the battery:
              I have had a volt tester on every type of component on the system boards. I'm not getting any voltage. I'm expecting 1.5-3.0v but I'm just guessing. There is nothing inside that looks like the battery on a computer motherboard. I see a bank of capasitors, a couple of ICs, and resistors.
              There are 2 small oval pill shaped components on the main board that may be batteries. They are about 10mm x 3mm and silver. It would require soldering to replace.

              If I post a pic of the main board would someone recognize the battery?

              (also - I purchased my TD3 last Sep, so if the battery died, I'm pretty unlucky)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by forben View Post
                About the battery:
                I have had a volt tester on every type of component on the system boards. I'm not getting any voltage. I'm expecting 1.5-3.0v but I'm just guessing. There is nothing inside that looks like the battery on a computer motherboard. I see a bank of capasitors, a couple of ICs, and resistors.
                There are 2 small oval pill shaped components on the main board that may be batteries. They are about 10mm x 3mm and silver. It would require soldering to replace.

                If I post a pic of the main board would someone recognize the battery?

                (also - I purchased my TD3 last Sep, so if the battery died, I'm pretty unlucky)
                I imagine bruce is speaking of something that resembles a flat (silver disk)watch battery.
                8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
                http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

                Comment


                • #9
                  There is no round flat battery that I recall. I'll check again when I get home from work.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here is a pic of the main board in the TD3. I believe that there is a bank of capacitors in the lower right (the silver cylinders marked with a C## on the board). There are 2 blue components marked with an L##. The small black things are transistors or resistors labels begin with D or R respectively.

                    I can't tell what the silver ovals are. The one above the BOSS chip on the right has '7.2AKSS6KT' on it. The board labels it 'X1'. The one under the trigger jacks has '8.2DKSS6KT' printed on the component and the board labels it 'X2'. The voltage meter gets a slight voltage reading from 4-20mV, the very bottom range of my multi-meter and could just be noise. I'm not getting voltage from any other component when the master power is off.

                    The other side of the board has some small components, but nothing that could be a battery. The other circuit board only has buttons and lights for the interface, none of it would be a battery.

                    I am using the supplied TD3 power adapter. The green light is on and I'm setting 9.5V.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks fulrmr(Daniel). I tried to load the sysX, but no dice. The TD3 does not appeat to accept the message.

                      Bulk Dump also will not work because Midi Err starts scrolling before I can begin the dump.

                      I'll keep testing. Let me know if anything else comes to mind.

                      Ben

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by forben View Post
                        Here is a pic of the main board in the TD3. ...
                        I can't tell what the silver ovals are. The one above the BOSS chip on the right has '7.2AKSS6KT' on it. The board labels it 'X1'. The one under the trigger jacks has '8.2DKSS6KT' printed on the component and the board labels it 'X2'.
                        The silver ovals are both crystals. X1 and X2 will oscillate at Mega Hertz frequencies, so you can't use a volt meter to measure their performance.

                        Anyway, none of the components on that PCB is a battery. So, either (1) it is mounted somewhere else in the TD-3 case, or (2) the TD-3 does not have a battery.

                        Keep in mind that Bruce never said that the battery is the cause of your problem. He just made an educated guess that it could possibly be a battery. Other Roland modules do have a battery, and they do sometimes exhibit strange behaviors when they are low.

                        Have you called Roland to see if they know anything about your symptoms?

                        -SD-

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I called Roland and the guy I spoke with knew nothing about the problem. There is no service bulletin or anything that he was able to pull up on his computer. The guy said that I would have to send it into the service center, but I've already opened the case open to try to fix myself. I'm guessing that the warranty is void. I'm going to send an email to see if there is someone more knowledgeable.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The manual says "The TD-3 failed to receive a MIDI message correctly. Transmit the MIDI message to the TD-3 once again."

                            So I would assume that somehow you were sending a MIDI message in to the module, and that somehow that got messed up. Try recreating whatever it was you were doing at the time the message started to see if you can transmit the MIDI message correctly. Even if you aren't sure what you were doing exactly, what can it hurt to try to recreate the scenario? Worst case you still have to send it in for repair, best case somehow the module is satisfied and returns to working order...

                            Or try something like this from the MIDIOX website "Mr-Yellow has submitted an installable VB program to convert Keystrokes to MIDI Notes: MIDI Keys. His text notes:
                            "Wrote a Keyboard shortcut to MIDI app using MIDIOx and VB. It grabs key combinations (regardless of focus) and outputs MIDI."

                            Perhaps some utility like this could be used to transmit a MIDI message to the module. Maybe the module doesn't even care what it gets, as long as it gets a complete message...

                            Page 64 of the TD-3 manual:
                            Using the TD-3 As a Sound Module - You can connect a MIDI-compatible keyboard or pads for performance.

                            1. Connect the TD-3ís MIDI IN connector with a MIDI cable to the MIDI OUT connector of the external MIDI device.

                            2. Set the external MIDI deviceís MIDI transmit channel to 10.

                            3. When playing the external MIDI device, the TD-3 will sound.

                            I'm not saying any of this will work for certain, just trying to think outside the box to try to help solve the issue.
                            Jack

                            Sabre's Album

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                            • #15
                              I have tried several sending sysex messages to the TD3 since the error began with no succes. I agree with you that the problem could have been that the module never recieved the proper footer so it is stuck in midi recieving mode. SD provided a sysex backup file. While loading the entire file to the TD3 did not solve the problem, I'll try to find the header and footer and load just those sections.

                              I'm using Brome's SendSX and an M-Audio Uno to send messages to the TD3. Both components have successfully sent and recieved messages from a HighlyLiquid MSA-P and a TD8.

                              A second test I'll try is to remotely triger the TD3 using the midi interface.

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