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Once and for all Hotspots

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  • #76
    the idea from my workflow, just change the minimum volume level to get the volume you want from the outside rim of the drum, adjust your volumes and trigger settings accordingly. I prefer to have the outside of the drum a little bit lower in volume than the middle, not a lot. No need to change out pads, buy new ones, messing with fickle trigger settings...just sayin
    Man's way is foolish

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    • #77
      I was going to get a PD-105 to replace my PDX-8 until I started reading about hotspots. As far as I can tell the PDX-8 doesn't suffer from hotspots and doesn't have a cone in the center. Anyone else find the same thing?
      Acoustic: FrankenKit - Late '60s Slingerland Kit, Ludwig snare and floor tom, add-on Pearl toms, Zildjian, Sabian and Paiste cymbals. DW5000 double pedal.
      Electric: Roland TD-25 for snare, cymbals and bass, Alesis DM-10 with Bluejay sounds for toms. Variety of Roland pads for cymbals and drums.

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      • #78
        This thread:
        http://vdrums.com/forum/showthread.p...ht=hotspot+pdx

        explains it. I searched using this term:

        hotspot pdx

        There were more hits and I think buried in one of the lengthy threads is an even more elaborate explanation. You should also look (if you haven't already) at the settings posts referenced at the beginning of this thread and see how many of them you could use on the TD-15.

        Plus, there are other options than Roland for a replacement that will help minimize the hotspot issue.

        www.dauphinehotel.com
        www.myspace.com/rubberuniverse
        www.digitaldrummermag.com
        TD-12, DTX502, SD1000, EZDrummer, Diamond Drum 12" snare, S1000 toms/cymbals/kick, PCY10/100/135/155, CY-5/14, Hart Ride, Hart Acupad 8" kick, Epedal Pro II, Concept 1 pads/cymbals, SD1000 & Roland V Sessions racks, PD-7, Kit Toy 10" splash, DMPad ride, SamplePad, PerformancePad Pro

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        • #79
          Originally posted by sycle1 View Post
          I converted my PD120 to Pd125 and no more hot spots all parts available from Roland cost approximately $52
          did you put a basket in your pd120 from roland to make it the pd125?

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          • #80
            So how are the hotspots on the new PD128 pads? same i guess?

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            • #81
              Originally posted by jnorris View Post
              I was going to get a PD-105 to replace my PDX-8 until I started reading about hotspots. As far as I can tell the PDX-8 doesn't suffer from hotspots and doesn't have a cone in the center. Anyone else find the same thing?
              I just purchased a td11 with a pdx8 but I also have a pd125 pad. I find the pdx8 doesn't have a hot spot like the pd125 has.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by bogodio View Post
                I just purchased a td11 with a pdx8 but I also have a pd125 pad. I find the pdx8 doesn't have a hot spot like the pd125 has.
                The PDX-8 has an offset cylinder foam trigger (not a central foam cone like the PD-Series).
                It's in the 6 o'clock position - hit it there and you'll find it does indeed have a hot spot
                Dialling out the hotspot on the PD-Series pads isn't so hard. Check the front of the sticky.

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                • #83
                  Cause of the problem

                  To start with, I love the Roland kit I have and posted some pics quite a while ago. I have a TD9 mk2 expanded with a TD4 over midi and some additional pads from Diamond Electronic Drums.

                  I read a lot about the Hot Spot issue by electronic drums.
                  Yes, I UTFSE on the Hot Spot issue, and although some have found a remedy against it, I canít get rid of the Hot Spot. Also the toms have a Hot Spot, not so striking as with the snare though.

                  But all the information about the Hot Spot, apologies if I missed something or misunderstood the information, is about to remedy the problem, but not about the cause of the problem.

                  To understand the issue of the Hot Spot a bit more I have some questions;

                  Is the Hot Spot Ö..
                  Piezo configuration/set up related?
                  Pad related?
                  Module related?
                  Sound sample related?
                  Brand and Make related?
                  Combination of the above mentioned related?

                  Piezo configuration/set up related?
                  Most piezo set ups are in the centre of the pads, are there other set ups where there is no loss of sensitivity and where there is no Hot Spot. What is the best configuration/set up to mount a piezo in a drum shell? Does the size of the piezo matter with the Hot Spot issue?

                  Pad related?
                  Is the Hot Spot issue only a problem with mesh head pads, or also with rubber pads?

                  Module related?
                  Are there specific modules, any given brand that has no Hot Spot issues?

                  Sound sample related?
                  When the piezo is hit directly over the head, is the output signal caused by the velocity and impact of the hit, the trigger for the spike in the sound? With other words is the output signal height of the piezo triggering a special sound sample in the module? Or is a high output signal from the piezo distorting the sound sample in such a way that it spikes?

                  Brand and Make related?
                  Are there brands on the market that have no issue with the Hot Spot? I am not talking about VST sampling here.

                  Combination of the above mentioned related?
                  Is the issue a combination of the above and different with every brand and make?

                  Thanks upfront for any insight in the problem and for your patience to read through this questionnaire.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by JanM View Post
                    To start with, I love the Roland kit I have and posted some pics quite a while ago. I have a TD9 mk2 expanded with a TD4 over midi and some additional pads from Diamond Electronic Drums.

                    I read a lot about the Hot Spot issue by electronic drums.
                    Yes, I UTFSE on the Hot Spot issue, and although some have found a remedy against it, I can’t get rid of the Hot Spot. Also the toms have a Hot Spot, not so striking as with the snare though.

                    But all the information about the Hot Spot, apologies if I missed something or misunderstood the information, is about to remedy the problem, but not about the cause of the problem.

                    To understand the issue of the Hot Spot a bit more I have some questions;

                    Is the Hot Spot …..
                    Piezo configuration/set up related?
                    I take it you are looking for the reason for vs the usual quick solution asked for in these threads. That's a rare and valuable trait. The following answers are based only on my personal observations and not from any solid scientific studies I'm aware of.

                    Yes, the center mounted piezo configuration places the piezo/trigger where it can easily detect the position and velocity of the hit, which unfortunately also places it in a position that is easily struck dead on. Correct setup of positional detection and sensitivity parameters in the module have a large affect on the hotspot problem. (As well as All the other trigger parameters of course).

                    Pad related?
                    Physical pad design creates a hotspot issue out of necessity IMO. Factory or DIY doesn't seem to have much influence on the result.

                    Module related?
                    IMO the module input design does not properly account for the electrical spike in output from the piezo that causes the hotspot issue in the first place.

                    Sound sample related?
                    Although the Roland modules do not directly use samples, the choice of sounds can have a great influence on how obvious the hotspot is.

                    Brand and Make related?
                    I've only played Roland modules

                    Combination of the above mentioned related?
                    Yes

                    Piezo configuration/set up related?
                    Most piezo set ups are in the centre of the pads, are there other set ups where there is no loss of sensitivity and where there is no Hot Spot. What is the best configuration/set up to mount a piezo in a drum shell? Does the size of the piezo matter with the Hot Spot issue?

                    Pad related?
                    Is the Hot Spot issue only a problem with mesh head pads, or also with rubber pads?
                    My KD-8's (rubber head) also have the hotspot issue but since the beaters always hit the same spot it is not an issue.

                    Module related?
                    Are there specific modules, any given brand that has no Hot Spot issues?

                    Sound sample related?
                    When the piezo is hit directly over the head, is the output signal caused by the velocity and impact of the hit, the trigger for the spike in the sound? With other words is the output signal height of the piezo triggering a special sound sample in the module? Or is a high output signal from the piezo distorting the sound sample in such a way that it spikes?
                    IMO, the trigger input on the module does not detect the trigger signal correctly once it goes above a certain voltage. Whether the piezo signal is distorted in some way or just too hot for the module input I couldn't say for sure but I think it is just too hot. I say this because limiting the peak output from the piezo to the trigger input will correct the hotspot issue with no loss of positional detection or usable dynamics from the pad, (along with correct input settings in the module of course).

                    Some would suggest that getting rid of the hotspot reduces the dynamics, which is true, but I said usable dynamics. IMO the hotspot is not creating any useful effect or dynamic.

                    Brand and Make related?
                    Are there brands on the market that have no issue with the Hot Spot? I am not talking about VST sampling here.

                    Combination of the above mentioned related?
                    Is the issue a combination of the above and different with every brand and make?

                    Thanks upfront for any insight in the problem and for your patience to read through this questionnaire.
                    I can't answer these last questions as other manufacturers have various ways of dealing with the issue, each having their own strengths and weaknesses.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Thanx for the reply.
                      Sorry that it took such a long time to react. I had a reaction ready a week or so ago, was called away for a short period and lost my reply for the greater part. So I had to start over. And again I had to start over, because I was thrown out.

                      No I am not looking for the quick solution. Because I tried the solutions given in this thread. My experience is that the quick solutions goes with loss of sensitivity or loss of dynamics. I am only trying to understand the (technical) problem some more.

                      As the English language is not my mother tongue, I need some more explanation of your reply.

                      Correct setup of positional detection and sensitivity parameters in the module have a large affect on the hotspot problem. (As well as All the other trigger parameters of course).
                      What do you mean with "setup of positional detection". I am not aware of settings for positional detection in the TD9. Do I miss something I am not aware of?

                      IMO the module input design does not properly account for the electrical spike in output from the piezo that causes the hotspot issue in the first place.
                      This need some explaining; Are you saying that the input design of the module prevent to "see" the spike of the piezo? How is that working?

                      IMO, the trigger input on the module does not detect the trigger signal correctly once it goes above a certain voltage. Whether the piezo signal is distorted in some way or just too hot for the module input I couldn't say for sure but I think it is just too hot. I say this because limiting the peak output from the piezo to the trigger input will correct the hotspot issue with no loss of positional detection or usable dynamics from the pad, (along with correct input settings in the module of course).
                      I think you are referring to the same as one above. Do you mean by this remark that when you limit in one or other way the output of the piezo to the module that you get rid of the hot spot. Firstly which setting I have to change to achieve this? If you mean the sensitivity and threshold settings, I tried this to the extreme. By setting this to a high value the hot spot is reduced with 60% or so, but is killing the dynamics. It does not matter where you hit the pad it is loud every where.
                      Setting the sensitivity to a normal level and raise the threshold, it is killing the sensitivity, because hits near the rim are not detected any more, or you have to hit it real hard.

                      When you play a drum roll on an acoustic snare, and play from the rim to the center, there is an increase in volume and pitch when you get closer to the center. I think that it should not be that impossible to imitate this on a electronic snare by electronic professionals.

                      So I still try to understand the technical problem of the hot spot some more, but I am not getting much closer yet.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        I don't have an hotspot with my diy snare I've used two different typs of foam for my triggers a soft foam for the tower and a harder foam on top this gives me no hotspot in the centre more of a 4" hotspot if you would prefer so I can play the centre of the snare without any sudden volume change and still get Pos Sens towards the outside,
                        .

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                        • #87
                          About the TD-15, which module settings should I refer to in order to fix the hotspot? TD-9? TD-20?

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by lozpop View Post
                            About the TD-15, which module settings should I refer to in order to fix the hotspot? TD-9? TD-20?
                            Similarly - how about the TD-11. Is it even possible to remove (or drastically reduce) the hotspot issue with a PDX-100 on the TD-11?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Anyone tried just placing a small patch on the hot spot? I experimented with a few strips of electrical tape on my snare and it works well. Going to try an actual patch as soon as I decide on which one. As for the elec tape, four or five overlapping strips was what I tried. Looks like this
                              *
                              but with an additional horizontal strip.

                              Obviously it must not affect rebound though. I suppose that's the real trick.
                              TD-30 module, PDP A2E (22, 16, 14, 12, 10), Quartz triggers,
                              VH11 hi-hat, PD125 (snare), Roland cymbals, Peavey KB4 monitor, Audio-Technica ATH-M50
                              Axis A21 Sabres, Axis A Longboards

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by bud7h4 View Post
                                Anyone tried just placing a small patch on the hot spot? I experimented with a few strips of electrical tape on my snare and it works well. Going to try an actual patch as soon as I decide on which one. As for the elec tape, four or five overlapping strips was what I tried. Looks like this
                                *
                                but with an additional horizontal strip.

                                Obviously it must not affect rebound though. I suppose that's the real trick.
                                Hmmm...so...basically...if you cut the "length" of the strips off and just make this tape "patch" a small "dot" over the cone to "protect" or "desensitize" it....it will not only look better.... but it will cure the issue?
                                8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
                                http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

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