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Once and for all Hotspots

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  • #31
    Hot spots are the center of the drum being hotter than the rest. This is minimized with rolands patented cone used on the center of mesh head. its eliminated with technology like the kat stuff or the mandala drum. To minimimize the effect of this you must adjust you playing away from the center and or use compression to limit the end volume. other setting that limit dynamics (Like trigger curves) also have an effect.

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    • #32
      The wiki page, very informative, ElegentDrum. Thanks.

      This is particularly relevant:
      To deliberately soften the attack of a snare drum, [audio engineers] might choose a fast attack time and a moderately fast release time combined with a higher threshold. To accentuate the attack of the snare, they might choose a slower attack time to avoid affecting the initial transient.
      My [URL="http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=381522#post381522"]compact kit[/URL].
      [COLOR="PaleGreen"][SIZE="1"]
      "Praise Him with [B]PD-125[/B] on [B]TD-10exp[/B]... praise Him with the clash of [B]CY-8[/B], praise Him with resounding [B]CY-15R[/B]." [URL="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20150;&version=31;"]Psalm 150[/URL][/SIZE][/COLOR]

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ElegentDrum View Post
        This is minimized with rolands patented cone used on the center of mesh head.
        Hmm... I got more hotspot on the supposedly patented mesh heads than the lowly rubber pads...

        Originally posted by ElegentDrum View Post
        its eliminated with technology like the kat stuff or the mandala drum.
        Do you have any pointers/references on these?
        My [URL="http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=381522#post381522"]compact kit[/URL].
        [COLOR="PaleGreen"][SIZE="1"]
        "Praise Him with [B]PD-125[/B] on [B]TD-10exp[/B]... praise Him with the clash of [B]CY-8[/B], praise Him with resounding [B]CY-15R[/B]." [URL="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20150;&version=31;"]Psalm 150[/URL][/SIZE][/COLOR]

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        • #34
          Elegent: At the risk of sounding too snotty, you really should read the links in this sticky. All of this has been covered to include the whole mechanics around Roland's cones and how they actually contribute to the hot spot. As sciomako said, most people don't experience the hotspot on the snare on a rubber pad but one of the biggest chronic complaints about high end Roland kits out of the box is the hotspot on the snare. Roland has done nothing to attempt to mitigate this problem via any hardware design that we're aware of.

          There are several approaches to getting rid of the hot spot which are included in the first post in this sticky.

          Again, I'm not trying to be *too* obnoxious for a change but what you're saying is patently untrue, at least as it pertains to mesh head drums. I don't know squat about DrumKats and such.

          www.myspace.com/rubberuniverse
          TD-12, DTX502, SD1000, EZDrummer, Diamond Drum 12" snare, S1000 toms/cymbals/kick, PCY10/100/135/155, CY-5/14, Hart Ride, Hart Acupad 8" kick, Epedal Pro II, Concept 1 pads/cymbals, SD1000 & Roland V Sessions racks, PD-7, Kit Toy 10" splash, DMPad ride, SamplePad, PerformancePad Pro

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          • #35
            Hello Grog,

            I'm not easily offended. Beat up what I have to say all you want. Freedome of expression is what it's all about.

            I have read every post/reply that you mentioned at the start of this thread. The goal of my last post was a simple explination of what a hot spot is. I must admit I have not spent much time with my new TD-20. I can say that the TDW-20 upgrade decreased the hot spot issues quite a bit.

            I ecpecially liked the post about the balance of dynamic range vs hot spots.

            To me:
            altering ones playing style to miss the center of the drum is a limitation imposed by the technology.
            The use of Audio compression should be saved for fitting drums within a mix and the mastering process. (I would rather have a TCE multy band compression or UA-1 compression than whats on the TDW-20)

            The hot spot issue is the MAJOR downfall if adjusting playing style for Edrums vs Adrums. Since I plan to contiue both, if this one issue could be eliminated with a better design of drums ---that's the correct solution. I would like to see a company that measures the pressure all around the edges of a mesh head rather than the center (or both) to allow controls that actually give the capacity to invert the hot spot issue. With a controlls that that, this issue would be completly eliminated.

            I give you credit Grog. You are one for the details.

            PS: RMC rocks, but they are not sponcers of this site. I have been talking to them about twice a week to finish up the purchase of my KIT.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by ElegentDrum View Post
              if [hotspot] could be eliminated with a better design of drums ---that's the correct solution.
              The way I see it, Roland already has the technology to mitigate hotspot, no change to the physical design of the mesh head is needed.

              Roland has positional sensing technology. It shouldn't be hard to map out the respond curve (i.e. "distance to pad centre" vs "velocity response") for each of their mesh head and then program a proper gain curve to cancel out the hotspot.

              I won't be surprised Roland is already doing this with their newer modules. Maybe that's why hotspot is less obvious with new modules (and TDW-20)?

              My current thinking is, hotspot (at least what i'm experiencing myself) is mainly a dynamic range issue with my speakers. Acoustic drums have no upper ceiling (unless you break it). But speakers and amps have. In this context, compression should provide good solution. But I don't know enough to get the ideal settings. Besides, it's quite possible the compressor in my TD-10exp doesn't provide the needed flexibility.

              Anyway, this is just pure speculation.
              My [URL="http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=381522#post381522"]compact kit[/URL].
              [COLOR="PaleGreen"][SIZE="1"]
              "Praise Him with [B]PD-125[/B] on [B]TD-10exp[/B]... praise Him with the clash of [B]CY-8[/B], praise Him with resounding [B]CY-15R[/B]." [URL="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20150;&version=31;"]Psalm 150[/URL][/SIZE][/COLOR]

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              • #37
                Guess we always stayed with the Trap Kat --never seem to be much of a hot spot All pads seemed equal over the surface

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                • #38
                  Crosstalk or Rim sensativity?

                  I think I have part of some of these issues. I too play at church, I am using the TDW20, I set some of the toms to give me a different sound on the rim, i.e. hi-bongo, - lo-bongo, block and cowbell you get the picture. I have the snare issue where I get a real crosstick sound 2 out of every 3 times and the closer I hit to the rims the better chance I have of getting the secondary sound.. I have cleaned up the system, replaced a few sensors and cables and still having the issue.. The only thing I have not done is reset the unit.
                  Last edited by dropsticks; 05-25-09, 11:33 PM. Reason: Mis Spellings
                  [B][I]Roland TDW 20 WT, FD7 HH Pedal, SPD-S, 1-pd85, 3-pd125, 2-pd 105, 2-cy 14, 1-cy15r,1-cy-5, 2 -pd9, Iron cobra double pedal, 1-cy 12hi hat, KD 85wt kick.[/I][/B]

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by dropsticks View Post
                    I think I have part of some of these issues. I too play at church, I am using the TDW20, I set some of the toms to give me a different sound on the rim, i.e. hi-bongo, - lo-bongo, block and cowbell you get the picture. I have the snare issue where I get a real crosstick sound 2 out of every 3 times and the closer I hit to the rims the better chance I have of getting the secondary sound.. I have cleaned up the system, replaced a few sensors and cables and still having the issue.. The only thing I have not done is reset the unit.
                    possibly the rim trigger sensitivity setting too high?
                    go into the trigger mode , advanced,, rim and try setting the rim sensitivity lower and or the threshold. hope that helps.
                    Pearl Mimic pro, A to E 7 piece Pearl Decade maple, ddrum Deccabons, Ddrum DDTi, UFO X-bar triggers, Real feel heads, Gibraltar rack, VH13, PD105 side snare, Roc-N-Soc,Tama Iron Cobra, Iron cobra high hat stand, Cobra clutch, Pearl throne thumper, Roland and Kit Toys cymbals, Roland KC 500, Promark

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                    • #40
                      Hi guys,

                      Let me introduce myself first. Recently I've found this forum after swapping my A-drum (20 years old Pearl BLX) for E-drum (Roland TD-20) last May. So I am quite a newbie in E-drumming .

                      Immediately I am experiencing this "hotspot" problem. At the beginning I just played around with the volume (snare higher than the rest), but I was not satisfied with the results. By surfing on internet finding answers on this specific issue, I become member of this forum at the end, since I've got tons of information here .

                      I've read almost everything over and over again since it was not that easy to understand everything as a recent switcher. But especially jammin777 has explained quite clear (thanks) what to do. So I've tried his suggested configuration on the first page. As far as I can see there are more expander options in TD-20 module (1-3). So I've selected one of them which had settings close to jammin777's and adapted it as suggested. The kit which I use is the first standard one (V-Pro).

                      After adapting the settings, honestly I do not hear/feel any different. The "hotspot" issue is i.m.o. still there as previously. The last option which I still need to do is to select king wood snare, which I've not yet done since it should work for all other snare selections according to jammin777.

                      Did I do something wrong here? Or do I miss something here? Should I change other settings somewhere else too?

                      Thanks for your reply.
                      [B][COLOR="Lime"]Roland TD-20BK[/COLOR][/B]

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hi casdrummer and welcome to the forum,
                        i am using the king wood snare with these settings. the stock version dont sound that great but when it is set up right, man does it come alive!. its my all time faverite snare. as for hotspots. you may even try to adjust the scan time and sensitvity, found in the trigger settings and or any other trigger settings. if you have a memory card i would save your settings first, that way if you make a mistake you have your old settings saved.
                        hope this helps. keep us posted as we are all learning here, but so far i am really happy with my setup.
                        Pearl Mimic pro, A to E 7 piece Pearl Decade maple, ddrum Deccabons, Ddrum DDTi, UFO X-bar triggers, Real feel heads, Gibraltar rack, VH13, PD105 side snare, Roc-N-Soc,Tama Iron Cobra, Iron cobra high hat stand, Cobra clutch, Pearl throne thumper, Roland and Kit Toys cymbals, Roland KC 500, Promark

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by jammin777 View Post
                          Hi casdrummer and welcome to the forum,
                          i am using the king wood snare with these settings. the stock version dont sound that great but when it is set up right, man does it come alive!. its my all time faverite snare. as for hotspots. you may even try to adjust the scan time and sensitvity, found in the trigger settings and or any other trigger settings. if you have a memory card i would save your settings first, that way if you make a mistake you have your old settings saved.
                          hope this helps. keep us posted as we are all learning here, but so far i am really happy with my setup.
                          Thanks for your reply.

                          Last night I've adapted the other settings according to your suggestion such as the reverb and the ambiance, and it is much better now ! So they matter absolutely.

                          But not yet changing the snare type and or the mic position. I still need to find out where and how. BTW: I can't find 50's king shell wood, where is it? Do you also have TD-20 module or maybe is it only available in other module?

                          Yes, I still need to purchase a memory card. Right now I do this in old fashion way, which is making a note of the change .
                          [B][COLOR="Lime"]Roland TD-20BK[/COLOR][/B]

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            i have the td 20 with the tdw 20 expansion card installed. is is part of the tdw expansion. i will reply laiter with more info as i am at work now and dont want to get caught. lol
                            Pearl Mimic pro, A to E 7 piece Pearl Decade maple, ddrum Deccabons, Ddrum DDTi, UFO X-bar triggers, Real feel heads, Gibraltar rack, VH13, PD105 side snare, Roc-N-Soc,Tama Iron Cobra, Iron cobra high hat stand, Cobra clutch, Pearl throne thumper, Roland and Kit Toys cymbals, Roland KC 500, Promark

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Ok, last night I've played around with shell type and depth, mic position etc. and yes, I have the idea now . Your snare configuration does not really blend with VPro kit that I use . I must adapt other toms too!

                              Jammin777, if you don't mind and can find time for it, can you please send the total settings of your kit? I like the sound of your snare by the way, so I would like to use the User Kit to create your kit.

                              Thank you so much!
                              [B][COLOR="Lime"]Roland TD-20BK[/COLOR][/B]

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Casdrummer View Post
                                Ok, last night I've played around with shell type and depth, mic position etc. and yes, I have the idea now . Your snare configuration does not really blend with VPro kit that I use . I must adapt other toms too!

                                Jammin777, if you don't mind and can find time for it, can you please send the total settings of your kit? I like the sound of your snare by the way, so I would like to use the User Kit to create your kit.

                                Thank you so much!
                                did you find my snare settings in another thread? if not here it is http://vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46761 post no 6
                                Last edited by jammin777; 06-13-09, 09:55 AM. Reason: needed to add url
                                Pearl Mimic pro, A to E 7 piece Pearl Decade maple, ddrum Deccabons, Ddrum DDTi, UFO X-bar triggers, Real feel heads, Gibraltar rack, VH13, PD105 side snare, Roc-N-Soc,Tama Iron Cobra, Iron cobra high hat stand, Cobra clutch, Pearl throne thumper, Roland and Kit Toys cymbals, Roland KC 500, Promark

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