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Mackie tinnitus?

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  • Mackie tinnitus?

    OK, check this ....

    Our keyboard player recently hired some (EV) PA gear for a gig and took the opportunity to ask the guy he hired off what he thought of the Mackie SRM450s. (Heís thinking of buying a PA and was impressed with the 450 I use with the Vs.) Apparently, the guy said "Ah yes, very good speakers but were your ears ringing after using them?" and went on to say that there are certain frequencies which will cause this ringing in the ears even at volumes that normally wouldnít. And that the Mackie does have this "feature". He claimed that the EV system he uses is engineered to prevent this!? (Sales B/S alert?)

    Now, we have only rehearsed once with the Vs so far and we were definitely louder than normal but not stupidly loud and we did have a ringing in our ears after. So he now thinks that these speakers are producing these ear-ringing frequencies! Sounds pretty unlikely to me.

    If it is the case I suppose it could be the high frequencies that could cause this. I have heard some drummers complain of ringing ears after using certain cymbals. In spite of what Iíve read on the forum Iíve been reasonably pleased with the accuracy and clarity of some of the cymbal sounds from my TD8 when played through the Mackie. Rehearsing with the Vs for the first time was quite odd because the snare doesnít "cut" so much so there was always the temptation to turn them up. And because I could turn up so everyone else was turning up too! I think volume may have been the source of the ringing ears but it was odd that this guy should mention it. And I'm sure general volume has reached those levels before without noticeably effecting the ears. But then that was with an un-mic'ed acoustic kit with not-so-good cymbals.

    Anyway, enough already. It just got me thinking and I wondered if anyone else had had any similar experiences. Or if anyone could confirm that there are certain frequency ranges that can cause this problem.

    Happy drumming. And look after those ears.

  • #2
    In a way ringing ears have nothing to do with certain frequencies. And not with the differences between brand A and brand B. However, certain frequencies can cause a certain power, sound pressure. And power (output, level) is the problem we talk about.

    When you listen to music (noises in general) which is too loud for a too long period of time then you can have ringing ears. It is a kind of warning not to go on with this, because the next stage is deafness. Honest !

    All pressure levels above 120 dB can be painfull, litterary.
    Listening to music above 100 dB for a long period of time, can already cause damages. As a rule of thumb you can say:

    " when two pepople need to shout in a converstion, the sound level is too high "

    Realize that all pop groups reach this stage every night !!

    Now your Mackie produces 126 dB of level, isn't it?

    WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU ....
    Last edited by puttenvr; 06-27-02, 09:13 AM.
    Robert

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    • #3
      Righto. That is freakin preposterous. The guy was pulling a Jim Carrey & talking out of his a$$.

      Most loudspeakers are rated at dB's (SPL) measured at 1 meter driven by 1 watt. This is just a sort of common means of measure for comparison purposes. If your ears are ringing more from the Mackies, remember that you mentioned that you turned them up to get more "crack" from your snare. I'd venture to say that it might be because their frequency response is a bit more flat than the others you were used to, which is a desirable trait.

      Many sound reinforcement speakers utilize high-efficiency horn tweeters that may be a bit "honky" (emphasizing certain higher frequencies) if the crossover isn't perfectly matched to them. I've seen many PA speakers sound very brittle on the high end because of this. This condition could produce more "crack" in your snare at a given volume than a more accurate, flat-response speaker such as the Mackie.

      As far as Electrovoice speakers (a very nice product, to be sure) being engineered to reduce tinnitus, that would be laughable even to the E-V engineers!

      BTW, I used to be in a band called Tinnitus once upon a time... earned the name, too!
      -Danny

      Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

      Comment


      • #4
        Tinnitus? I've had this problem twice i my life. Luckily enough, both times my doc could fix it. Ever since then I have been warning people about it because it is actually quite scary.

        The first time I simply spent too much time in front of a huge Marshall stack our bassist was using (my drums were just two meters away or so).

        The second time it happened on our street. A truck driver honked his horns (plural; loud as ****) at someone and I was just standing next to the truck. The tinnitus I got then still pops up once in a while in stress situations and is really irritating.

        ALWAYS use ear protection and NEVER turn up your headphones too loud for a longer period of time.

        If anything happens, go and see a doctor within hours of the incident. That's very important!!!!! Infusions and such can really make the difference if you get them in time. 12-24 hours after is TOO LATE. Believe me!
        My equipment:
        :: (Expanded, TDW-1 with V-Cymbal Control)
        :: 2x CY-15R, 1x CY12H, 2 CY12R/C
        :: 1x Pad-120, 8x Pad-80R, 6x PD-7, 1x PD-9, 1x KD-120
        :: 1x FD-7
        :: 1x Roland MDS-10, 6x Sonor Delite double cymbal stands
        :: 1x DW 5000 Pedal
        :: 1x Mackie 1202 VLZ
        :: 1x NAD C521 CD-Player

        To be expanded soon ...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by deus62
          Tinnitus? I've had this problem twice i my life. Luckily enough, both times my doc could fix it. Ever since then I have been warning people about it because it is actually quite scary.

          The first time I simply spent too much time in front of a huge Marshall stack our bassist was using (my drums were just two meters away or so).

          The second time it happened on our street. A truck driver honked his horns (plural; loud as ****) at someone and I was just standing next to the truck. The tinnitus I got then still pops up once in a while in stress situations and is really irritating.

          ALWAYS use ear protection and NEVER turn up your headphones too loud for a longer period of time.

          If anything happens, go and see a doctor within hours of the incident. That's very important!!!!! Infusions and such can really make the difference if you get them in time. 12-24 hours after is TOO LATE. Believe me!

          Yep all that sounds like good advice. I have always worn earplugs however I was involved in an accident last year in which I got concussion after a large bang on the head. I've had tinnitus ever since.

          Bit if a ****** really since I've always worn plugs and kept away from large speaker stacks.

          A friend also has tinnitus and blames the fact that a JBL G2 was placed at ear level to him and wasn't able to get away from its direct line of fire all the way through a gig. The JBL was kicking out keyboard stuff which really would not have helped.

          Be careful out there


          hearsafe ear info

          David
          Last edited by Daveb; 06-30-02, 09:39 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            http://www.hearsafe.com/pict/kid.jpg
            My equipment:
            :: (Expanded, TDW-1 with V-Cymbal Control)
            :: 2x CY-15R, 1x CY12H, 2 CY12R/C
            :: 1x Pad-120, 8x Pad-80R, 6x PD-7, 1x PD-9, 1x KD-120
            :: 1x FD-7
            :: 1x Roland MDS-10, 6x Sonor Delite double cymbal stands
            :: 1x DW 5000 Pedal
            :: 1x Mackie 1202 VLZ
            :: 1x NAD C521 CD-Player

            To be expanded soon ...

            Comment


            • #7
              My ears never stop ringing...

              Yes, very annoying.

              There's always a high pitched whistle going on in both of them (more to the tight than the left).

              I figure it has a great deal to do with the headphones I have been using. I do not play loud and certainly do not listen to the headphones very loud yet the problem seems to be here to stay.

              My father warned me about the use of headphones. Your ears are being subjected to a more focused sound environment regardless of the level.

              I asked him one day if he could hear a whistle in his ears (he has been drumming for over forty years) and he told me most days he couldn't even hear the train!

              Funny, sad, but true.

              Going to get this looked into real soon.

              I can still hear the crickets in the grass and the buzzing of the bees and the sound of the dinner bell. Maybe there is some hope yet...

              I always wear earplugs at concerts and in loud environments (band practise, work).

              Oh well.
              Kelly Mercer
              Halifax, Nova Scotia
              Canada

              My Youtube Channel!
              http://www.youtube.com/user/VirtualMP3Studio

              My "home studio" webcam!
              http://virtualmp3studio.ww.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                Good article!

                It is funny because I usually have music playing 24/7 somewhere in the house or an air purifier to mask the sound in my head. It just seemed like the thing to do.

                Kelly Mercer
                Halifax, Nova Scotia
                Canada

                My Youtube Channel!
                http://www.youtube.com/user/VirtualMP3Studio

                My "home studio" webcam!
                http://virtualmp3studio.ww.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  I just read that article.. I'm not sure what to make of my ringing then.. As far as I can recall, I've had a ringing in my ears since I was 5 or younger.. I remember hearing it when I was really young and didn't really know what to make of it.. I think my hearing is pretty good, though listening to a sweep above 10kHz, I can hear a dropoff in my right ear at one point for I don't know, maybe 200hz worth of sweeping, then it comes back up to the level of my left ear.. I doubt my Sony headphones are dipping there but it's possible?

                  I try to be careful with my playing levels but sometimes rehearsals and the once a year or so gig get out of hand with the volume.. But from what the article said, this kinda thing isn't causing me any damage? But a lot of times I get done with stuff and notice a ringing for a couple of hours after.. This is okay and normal and nothing to worry about then?

                  The ringing I have 24/7 is only noticeable when I lay down and go to bed and the room is pretty quiet, otherwise I don't hear it.. Though of course I hear it right now, since the computer's fans and motors are below that frequency..

                  Anyone else have a similiar low level lifelong ringing? Is that Tinnitus or just some normal thing?
                  Expanded TD-10, TD-7, PTX-8, DrumKAT 3.8, 8xPD7, 5xPD9, 4xKD7, FD7, 3xPD100, 4xPD120, 4xHart Acupad TE3, 2xECymbalX, Pintech Kick, 10xLP Spike, 2xSapphire, 3xPTT8, 1xPSD8, PBD8 Kick, 2xSynare 3, 2xAcrylic Cymbals, Gibraltar/Roland racks

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hehe, yeah but when the power goes out and it's snowing like that, that's the time to go out and listen to the snow falling.. That weird surreal sound that you won't find in any sound fx library.. Ahhh Florida sucks..
                    Expanded TD-10, TD-7, PTX-8, DrumKAT 3.8, 8xPD7, 5xPD9, 4xKD7, FD7, 3xPD100, 4xPD120, 4xHart Acupad TE3, 2xECymbalX, Pintech Kick, 10xLP Spike, 2xSapphire, 3xPTT8, 1xPSD8, PBD8 Kick, 2xSynare 3, 2xAcrylic Cymbals, Gibraltar/Roland racks

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've had tinnitus for decades. I trace it back to a particularly loud Black Oak Arkansas concert I had front row seats for that left me completely deaf for a couple of days. I ignored it for a long time, but a few years ago it started to get more noticable and that's when I finally started wearing earplugs to practice and gigs and concerts and anything else I thought might get loud. It's not too bad, these days (or I'm just used to it). A trick I picked up, that actually seems to work when it gets too loud, is to press on my earlobe with my first finger and then tap on the nail with the second finger at about 30 BPM for a few seconds. I don't know why, but it always seems to make it go away.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Interesting idea with the earlobes, I guess that works out to once every 2 seconds at 30bpm, huh? I'll keep that in mind..
                        Expanded TD-10, TD-7, PTX-8, DrumKAT 3.8, 8xPD7, 5xPD9, 4xKD7, FD7, 3xPD100, 4xPD120, 4xHart Acupad TE3, 2xECymbalX, Pintech Kick, 10xLP Spike, 2xSapphire, 3xPTT8, 1xPSD8, PBD8 Kick, 2xSynare 3, 2xAcrylic Cymbals, Gibraltar/Roland racks

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah, I don't know why it works, but it works. About once every two seconds or so, seems about right. It needs to be a slow, steady rythm.

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                          • #14
                            or is it that it makes a sudden thud kinda sound and your ears shut down for a while and knock off the sh!t with the ringing?
                            Expanded TD-10, TD-7, PTX-8, DrumKAT 3.8, 8xPD7, 5xPD9, 4xKD7, FD7, 3xPD100, 4xPD120, 4xHart Acupad TE3, 2xECymbalX, Pintech Kick, 10xLP Spike, 2xSapphire, 3xPTT8, 1xPSD8, PBD8 Kick, 2xSynare 3, 2xAcrylic Cymbals, Gibraltar/Roland racks

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Tap-tap-tap

                              Just like rebooting the old PC.... don't know if your'e pulling my leg but i tried it and it seens to WORK!!!

                              I gigged and rehearsed for WAY too long without earplugs... have been to WAY too many concerts too... The problem is that after a beer or five I tend to say "fuxx the plugs" and just dig in... But then at a very loud club in London one night my right ear suddenly just snapped and "sounded" like distortion... I left immidiately and could only hear "beeeep"... was totally deaf for a couple of days and then it cleared... Since then I can get that same "lockout and distortion" on my right ear just from the sound of say... hammering a nail... From that experience I ALWAYS use earplugs even for minor soundlevels... The ringing comes on/off... but that "tapping" of yours helped!!! Weird...

                              Thanx for the tip/Mr Harley
                              Itīs just like walking...
                              __________________
                              SONOR Delite

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