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CY-12H not sensitive enough

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  • CY-12H not sensitive enough

    Greetings,

    The other day I received my set of v-cymbals. For the most part, I consider it money well spent. I like the crash and the ride, although I wish the ride came in 16" or even 18" diameters. The cymbals are heavy, but at least they swing. The rim triggers require a good aim, but they're much easier to trigger than the rims on my PD-7's, although I had to bump up the scan time to isolate the rim sounds from the bow sounds and get rid of some weird "thrashing noise" near the rim of the ride. Using my TD-8, I prefer the bow/rim config over the bow/bell config on the ride, since the bell seems to require a harder hit and produces more stick noise than the rim.

    Now for the things I'm not so happy with. First, the lug nuts on the "pivot spacer" (the V-shaped cylindrical metal piece which the cymbals rest on so they can swing back and forth) are "non-standard", i.e. you can't use a normal T-shaped drum lug to tighten them. At first I thought they were stripped, but then I realized it's just Mr. Roland putting on his obligatory display of incompetence (there's always *something* fishy about every Roland edrum product). But it's not that big of a deal. And for how much the cymbals cost, I think they should be able to swing in every direction (not just north/south) and rotate 360 degrees. But again, I can deal with this.

    Now here's my real problem. The hi-hat tracks well near the center (bell), but move a few inches off-center and it starts to miss hits when playing "rolls" (I am still new to drumming and don't know the term for this), you know, when you hit "once" and let it bounce a few times producing a quick series of 3 or 4 triggers. The ride does not have this problem at all, presumably because the ride unit is lighter and thinner thus more responsive. I notice that harder hits on the hat sometimes track correctly, but I am a relatively light-hitter (threshold:0, sensitivity:10). The other pads suit my playing style just fine, but the hi-hat does not. I have messed with every single trigger setting the TD-8 has with no success. It seems like the TD-8's range of threshold is not wide enough to accomodate the CY-12H pad. Finally, the rim of the hat is very noisy (ugly-sounding even) and requires a much harder hit than the rims on the crash or the ride, making it just about useless for me.

    Now, yesterday I took a nice trip to Mars in Orlando (actully it wasn't that nice -- traffic sucks in the city and I have no tolerance for traffic) and played on their v-session for a bit. I brought my CY-12H, but the bastard wouldn't let me switch it out for testing (apparently it takes them 3 months of hard labor to configure each edrum kit, and they don't want to lose all that hard work for nothing). Anyway, the hi-hat on the v-session *did* have the same problem, but not to the same extent as with my TD-8. I was satisfied after tweaking some of the trigger settings on the TD-10. At home, I switched out the hi-hat for one of my PD-7's (I was previously using a PD-100 for hi-hat which worked quite nicely except for the hot spot), and I noticed the same effect with tracking near the rim, but not quite so obvious.

    So, what should I make of all this? Is it just a fault in the product that I'll have to deal with, or is my CY-12H defective, or am I missing something important on the trigger parameters? Thanks to everybody for your help -- the last 6 months (both with and without the drums) have been a great learning experience.
    Roland TD-20 v1.08, various v-drums and v-cymbals, Yamaha KP65's, Axis pedals, Gibraltar hardware, Mackie 1202/SRM450 (pre-china)

  • #2
    I forgot something perhaps very important -- when I try to do the "bounce hit" on the hat, the stick bounces 3 times but triggers only 2. As if the vibration produced by the first 2 hits cancels out the third. I have fooled with mask time, retrig, etc, but I cannot eliminate this problem.
    Roland TD-20 v1.08, various v-drums and v-cymbals, Yamaha KP65's, Axis pedals, Gibraltar hardware, Mackie 1202/SRM450 (pre-china)

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with you. I bought my V-session about a month ago and my only complaint was the CY-12H. My first post on this site was for some advice to find the right HiHat sound or tweak. I didn't get much help except RTFM (read the F**king manual) from some guy. Not much help at all. I have tried all kinds of adjustments to pitch, delay, trigger sensitivity, asigning rim the fixed closed sound and the bell normal Hihat sounds. I still am not as happy with the sound or feel as a real hihat. I am still tweaking the kit. If I find the right combo I will let you know.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ufotofu:
        there's always *something* fishy about every Roland edrum product
        My Octapad was perfect from scratch...
        Robert

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mulkster:
          I still am not as happy with the sound or feel as a real hihat.
          Same here. I've been tweaking for a while now, and I still can't get it to respond like it should. I can't even get it to respond as well as a PD-7. I'm seriously thinking about sending it back and going with a mesh pad again, or PD-7. This sucks. I mean, the crash and ride are far from perfect, but at least they're usable. I can't believe I paid over $200 for this piece of sh1t.

          I have found some half-assed solutions however. On my TD-8, the "K1" and "K2" settings actually respond better for the CY-12H than the recommended "PD7" (i.e. they don't miss as many hits), but then you lose the rim, which IMO is useless anyway. This is like buying a new car, and having to use the parking brake because the foot brake works only half the time. What the [email protected]
          Roland TD-20 v1.08, various v-drums and v-cymbals, Yamaha KP65's, Axis pedals, Gibraltar hardware, Mackie 1202/SRM450 (pre-china)

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, i have exactly the same problem
            (td-8)
            ________________
            Roy A.

            Comment


            • #7
              ufotofu,

              Have the V-Session here with all the goodies (and bought an extra 12" V crash to "fill it up" to maximum capacity). Yes, there seems to be a 90 degree angle of "optimum" trigger sensing (45 degrees off front center from right and left). Never felt this a problem as, said with tongue in cheek, with proper technique and consistency i hit the correct placement area. Though yes you are correct, there are parts of the top crash that seem to be more sensitive than others.

              Enjoy the music (Kraftwerk "The Man Machine" right now),

              Steven R. Rochlin

              "Man Machine
              Thing and human being
              Man Machine
              Semi human being"
              Enjoy the music,

              Steven R. Rochlin
              http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Enjoy the Music.com:
                Yes, there seems to be a 90 degree angle of "optimum" trigger sensing (45 degrees off front center from right and left).
                My problem is with the v-hat, not the crash. I can deal with the annoyances of the crash and ride, but the missed hits on my v-hat are more than just an annoyance. It's simply unacceptable, especially from a line of products that are supposed to be of "professional quality". (Hmmm, where have I heard this before...)
                Roland TD-20 v1.08, various v-drums and v-cymbals, Yamaha KP65's, Axis pedals, Gibraltar hardware, Mackie 1202/SRM450 (pre-china)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hey ufotofu,

                  If you find that the rim to be useless anyway, then I would try a Hart hi-hat – Ecymbal X or (my choice) Ecymbal II. They work better and do not miss hits. I play my hats similarly to you at times – “to do the "bounce hit" on the hat” and I have not missed any hits yet.

                  Yes the stick noise plays a faster for some people and the Ecymbal II will produce stick noise, although you will not hear it if you have some juice to your PA/monitors. At low volume you will hear the stick noise but at least you are playing a hat as close to a real hat overall – especially in the response and feel.

                  So if you don’t want to miss hits, try a Hart hat for size.


                  ------------------
                  szvook
                  Studio

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm planing on buying the Ride cymbal but not the hi hats or crashes.... too much $$.

                    Anyways, I have been using one of the smaller, single trigger mesh pads (PD-80 ?)
                    for my hi-hat for over a year now and really like it. The bounce is great for me... but it probably wont work that great with the upgraded wave card I need for the ride.

                    As soon as I get the upgrade I'll let you know how it works.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I just got The Visulite Ride and it is excellent. It tracks super and moves and behaves more like a real rid than the roland. "Black Opaque", looks like a black grand piano, nice!!Nice big bell too...Oh yeah, i got it because it's 18", too. $99 clams as Tony Soprano would say, how can anyone argue witt that?

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                      • #12
                        When did you order it and how long did it take to get there?
                        :rolleyes:

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                        • #13
                          Also, what did they charge for shipping?
                          :rolleyes:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by szvook:
                            If you find that the rim to be useless anyway, then I would try a Hart hi-hat – Ecymbal X or (my choice) Ecymbal II.
                            I wish I had, because I'm about to take a sledgehammer to my v-hat. Hopefully I will get a chance to try the Hart pads/cymbals soon if I can find a place to demo them. I am very interested in the Visu-Lite cymbals as well.
                            Roland TD-20 v1.08, various v-drums and v-cymbals, Yamaha KP65's, Axis pedals, Gibraltar hardware, Mackie 1202/SRM450 (pre-china)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              $109 total for the ride.
                              at my house in 7 days.
                              last night I hooked it up my td-8 and it responds really nice. Plays like a real ride.
                              have to put it in aux input 11/12, but with that input mode you get real nice separate bell/ride areas. No reason to get the roland ride with this baby!

                              Comment

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