TD8: Rim problems

[jweaver]

I have a TD8 and am gradually working through my teething problems, but I can't work out 'rims', more specifically their 'sensitivity'.

I have done extensive searches on this subject, and I am clearly not the first.. But nothing which has been suggested has helped.

The problem I have is that the rims are simply hard to trigger and they seem to lack sensitivity...

On the snare input its fine, but thats not a surprise, as that has options to configure the 'sensitivity'.. But for my Toms and Cymbals there is nothing..

I am using PD-8s as my Toms and CY-8s as my Cymbals and both exhibit the same (or similar) problems.

I can live with the Toms as they are, as my previous unit (TD-3) didn't even have rim support, so this is a bonus anyway.. But its the cymbals that I am most worried about.. At the end of the day, you don't really need rim shots on a Tom, but you do need to be able to hit the cymbals differently

With my TD-3 you could adjust the sensitivity of the Rims and moving between Bell and Rim shots was seamless.. But with the TD-8 its a bit hit and miss (quite literally). I can't quite believe that they give Rim support on ALL inputs, but then don't give you any config options on anything other than the snare

I have gone through all the settings which have been suggested from the advanced menu and nothing helps, so I don't know what to do now.. The only thing I can do is get used to it and change my style to accomodate, but its a shame it has to be like this. My TD-3 was much more convincing in this area. Don't get me wrong.. The TD-8 is infinitely better than the TD-3 in every way, except this!

I am living in false hope that when I get my MIDI cable and upgrade the firmware to 1.10 it will be better, as the new firmware claims to support more recent pads.. But I am pretty sure that nothing really changes, other than the 'naming' of the pads and I am not going to see ANY improvement in this area..

Is there ANYTHING which can be done?

My fingers are crossed that someone can suggest something!

Jon

[M_C_M]

I have the 1.10 update on my td8 and use cy8 cymbals and don't have a problem, both bow and edge work perfectly I even use one as my hihats, so maybe there is something in the update. I was using pd8's, which I recently sold , and I done a mod to one of them I pulled it apart removing the rubber pad and put double sided tape around the rim switch, without removing the backing from the tape, and this improved the sensitivity of the rim heaps and I quess you already know the tom inputs are piezo/switch not piezo/piezo...

[jweaver]

I have the 1.10 update on my td8 and use cy8 cymbals and don't have a problem, both bow and edge work perfectly I even use one as my hihats, so maybe there is something in the update. I was using pd8's, which I recently sold , and I done a mod to one of them I pulled it apart removing the rubber pad and put double sided tape around the rim switch, without removing the backing from the tape, and this improved the sensitivity of the rim heaps and I quess you already know the tom inputs are piezo/switch not piezo/piezo...

Many thanks for that.. Perhaps the 1.10 update will help.

To be honest, I am a little confused about 'trigger types'.. I currently have my CY-8s set to 12A, but I have cycled through all of the types and to be honest, I couldn't notice any difference.. Looking at the manual again, I can see that 12A is wrong, but when I tried others (i.e PD7) I couldn't see/hear any difference.

The Cymbals (and rims) work on most of the pad types.. But as its stands, ia m not 100% sure what I would set it too, and until I can get 1.10 installed (which I have documentation which shows the correct pads types for the PD-8 and CY-8) I can't be sure that its configured correctly.

I was aware of the piezo/switch and piezo/piezo limitations.. But this has got me thinking.. I am looking at a 2nd hand set of PD-80s to replace my PD-8s. I wonder if these are Piezo/Piezo and whether the rims work on the TD-8 on the TOM inputs?

*EDIT*.. Just found out that there is a PD-80 and PD-80R model and only the 'R' has a rim switch.. So, if the ones I am looking at are PD-80s, then I am going to loose my rim functionality, but gain 'mesh'... Tricky!!!

Jon

[M_C_M]

I was using pd80r pads for toms and the rims did work with them, although not very well, and I recently upgraded to pd100 and pd120 toms, which are much nicer to play but obviously have no rim function at all, perhaps someone more knowledgeable can tell us why the pd80r works on a piezo/switch input when it is a dual piezo pad ?

[jweaver]

I was using pd80r pads for toms and the rims did work with them, although not very well, and I recently upgraded to pd100 and pd120 toms, which are much nicer to play but obviously have no rim function at all, perhaps someone more knowledgeable can tell us why the pd80r works on a piezo/switch input when it is a dual piezo pad ?

I checked last night and my Cymbals are setup as 12B but looking in the book, this is for PD120 pads.. So I changed them to something else (PD7) and they are no where near as responsive now... So I put them back to 12B

Once I have done the upgrade and can actually set them as 'cymbals', I will know they are set right and can work on this from there.

With regards to the Toms, the question might end up being irrelivant now.. I am looking at some 2nd hand pads.. Either the PD-80 or the Hart Accupads.. Neither of these will give a 'rim shot' on the TD-8.

On the TOMs, the Rims shot works.. But you have to hit it quite hard to trigger.

To be honest, right now, I find the rim on the Toms so annoying anyway that I am tempted to turn them off.. This is all down to the fact that the pads are small and I am a complete novice, so I don't have the accuracy to hit them on the pad (as opposed to the rim) each time... Saying there might be a good reason to leave them on, as this is forcing me to become more accurate.

Jon

[M_C_M]

Rim shots on the toms is an over rated feature, I suppose its handy to put a splash or something on for an extra voice, it certainly doesn't bother me not having it. One of the beautiful things about Vdrums when learning and practicing is they force you to play very accurately and evenly, if your loose you can't get a consistent sound from them, you get much better results with a more gentle smoother playing style. I played acoustic drums for many years and the last few years of owning Vdrums I have become much smoother and consistent. I think its still important to learn correct technique, things like the free stroke, even though they are not as necessary on electronic drums as acoustics they are still an important part of drumming...

[jweaver]

That does make sense.. There does seem to be little point in a rim shot, unless you are making up some 'novelty' kits (i.e steel drums)..

My other worry about mesh is "Hot Spots"! Of the few mesh pads I have seen, they suffer from a hot spot.. On my PDX-8 its on the bottom and gives approximatly 20% increase in volume with the same power hit.

But I did try some cheap UK heads last week, and they had a obvious hot spot in the middle which was like 1000% louder in the middle than anywhere else..

So I am now paranoid about mesh heads in general!

Jon

[Cramsession]

I didn't think the TD-8 supported rim triggering on Toms, am I way off base?

Thanks,

Cram

[ige87]

It does support rims. However, it should technically only support Piezo/Switch pads like the PD-8. Piezo-Piezo pads need an adapter which converts the singlas from P/P to P/S to work properly - the Raper circuit.

[jweaver]

I didn't think the TD-8 supported rim triggering on Toms, am I way off base?

Thanks,

Cram

Yes it does.. But they have to be 'switch' triggers, rather than 'piezo'.. I have the PD-8 pads and their rim sensing works fine.. But because its a 'switch' you have to hit it slightly harder than the rims on the snare to get it to trigger.. But it does work!

Jon

[M_C_M]

That does make sense.. There does seem to be little point in a rim shot, unless you are making up some 'novelty' kits (i.e steel drums)..

My other worry about mesh is "Hot Spots"! Of the few mesh pads I have seen, they suffer from a hot spot.. On my PDX-8 its on the bottom and gives approximatly 20% increase in volume with the same power hit.

But I did try some cheap UK heads last week, and they had a obvious hot spot in the middle which was like 1000% louder in the middle than anywhere else..

So I am now paranoid about mesh heads in general!

Jon

1000% louder that is loud My pd120 on snare has an obvious hot spot, as it has been stated many times before, but as I was saying with good technique and a smooth playing style this is not a problem, you can even use this to gain more dynamics from the snare, as for the toms, with pd100 & 120 pads, its not as noticeable, they respond very similar to acoustic toms really.
I recently watched a video of Steve Gadd ( worlds greatest drummer ) on Drummerworld.com, he was using white coat heads on all his drums and in the center of each drum there was a worn patch about 3" in diameter and the rest of the head was like new. It caught my attention and got me thinking...