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help a newbie??

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  • help a newbie??

    Hi im a newbie to elec drums, in fact ive only been playing drums for three years. Anyway I played some vcustom kit (the one with the small pads, not the large) a while ago so i know what there like. Quite frankly (i don't mean to insult anyone and im not trying to diss your gear) i don't understand how you can like them better than aucoustic. The kit felt great and the no noise aspect is a bonus, but it just didn't sound realistic. I fiddled with the brain thingy and i think there was a kit called fusion that sounded better than most but still not very good. My question is this:

    Do you guys put better sounds in there or do u just think those sounds that it comes with are good?

    Thanks,
    Bill

  • #2
    1. what do you expect from e-drums? Just for a practice set, or for replacing 'real' drums. In the latter case you may be disappointed with some sounds, dynamics and feel. An e-drum can be compared with an acoustic kit, which is miked and run through a sound system live. Don't compare an e-drum with an acoustic kit which is played at home or in a drum shop. In this case the acoustic kit always wins on the points I mentioned.

    2. most members tweak the sounds from a module because (a) they want to have their own sounds and/or (b) they just don't like the factory sounds.

    So: take more time to find out if an e-drum fits your needs or (otherwise) just turn around and stay happy with your acoustic drums.
    Robert

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the reply. I hope to get a v drum eventually ($expensive$) if only purely for the sound conveniance

      Comment


      • #4
        To add to Putt's comments, I always thought(and just confirmed it) that the 127 levels of MIDI dynamics on the V drums is a limitation on the e-drums. Did anyone ever wonder why 127??
        It corresponds with the HEX number of 7F, right in the middle of the maximum 16 bit number of FF. (hmm just checked, 127 is also
        1111111 in binary, so dynamics levels from 7 digit binary?? Strange.. Anyone knows why??)

        Anyway, I think 127 is still not enough as I can hear the dynamics "jump" between one level to the next. Thus making the unrealistic feel described by Putt and Bweir96.

        However, to answer Bweir's questions, I for one, also feel the same as you about edrums, regarding feel and realism , but I would still get them. (I have) But you need to get used to it, same way as a pianist shifting to an electronic piano somewhat)

        Fon.


        Fon.

        TD8 with PD7's, 2 KD7's (From previous TD7)
        Tama Rockstar with mix of Sabian, Zildjian and Paiste.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm not sure that makes any sense at all.

          127 would be

          011111111

          You can't leave off a digit, because all 8 digits define the numerical equivelant.

          That said, MIDI note numbers don't correspond to binary digits the way you describe - in Roland's world or anyone else's.

          I'm also fairly certain that 127 is 7E in Hex, not 7F.

          01000010 B
          01001001 I
          01001110 N
          01000001 A
          01010010 R
          01011001 Y




          Comment


          • #6
            Hi again Binary,
            Roland or any other Module still uses Microchips using CPU, A/D, etc.
            I am a Product Engr, and our dept tests Microcontrollers(Processors), with 16bit arithmetic registers, with CPU, RAM, EPROM, EEPROM, 8 bit A/D, etc. I.e. HC11's.

            While the code you used(ASCII??) to write your name "BINARY" is using the special code unique for each character,(or the code used for MIDI note numbers) it doesn't make sense
            to represent Velocity levels in a special code? Hmm.. how I wish I could work for Roland corporation..

            Any new hires needed??

            Fon.

            Fon.

            TD8 with PD7's, 2 KD7's (From previous TD7)
            Tama Rockstar with mix of Sabian, Zildjian and Paiste.

            Comment


            • #7
              Of couse they're using Microchips for the units, but I don't think the MIDI setup works the way you imply.

              Velocity levels in a special code?
              Yeah, but it's not like they decided to use the first seven digits of the 8 digit binary code and have every possible permutation equate to a specific velocity level.

              Correctomundo, BINARY is spelled out using the binary representation of ASCII characters.

              BINARY

              Comment


              • #8
                As MPCman once wrote: it's not important that there are 127 steps of dynamics, it's important how these steps are subdivided.

                On most e-drums the dynamics are great as far as the soft parts of playing are concerned. From a certain point every thing is at the same volume level. You just can't get louder. This should be done better.
                Robert

                Comment


                • #9
                  Binary,
                  I was saying, that velocity levels are NOT using special binary code, but straight forward 1 - > 127 from softest to loudest..
                  The TD7 has a setting to change the velocity meter display between the bar type and the number type and the number does increase proportionately with velocity. 1-127 levels.

                  Your quote: (You don't think...)
                  "first seven digits of the 8 digit binary code and have every possible permutation equate to a specific velocity level."

                  So if they don't do the above, how do they do it then? But my guess is that it's not in code, but a direct straight forward representation. From 00000000 to 01111111
                  same as from 0 to 127.

                  Anyway, the point is, as Putt pointed out, the limitations in the velocity sensitivity we hear.

                  Fon

                  Fon.

                  TD8 with PD7's, 2 KD7's (From previous TD7)
                  Tama Rockstar with mix of Sabian, Zildjian and Paiste.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BINARY:
                    I'm not sure that makes any sense at all.

                    127 would be

                    011111111

                    You can't leave off a digit, because all 8 digits define the numerical equivelant.

                    I'm also fairly certain that 127 is 7E in Hex, not 7F.

                    I don't mean to sound like a nerd, but...

                    you can leave off a digit, as long as it are zeros. Just as 0127 means the same as 127 in decimal numbers, 01111111 is equal to 1111111 in binary numbers.

                    7F (Hex) is equal to 1111111 (Binary) is equal to 127 (Decimal)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      man its funny how i started this post with asking for advice for a beginner and it turned into advanced technical jargon. lol. anyways. jargon away......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My head reels.....
                        I...I...I, just wanna play drums...

                        My question is : How do I set the sensitivity so that I can get the best natural feel and be soft and make the loudest point seem more like an acoustic set?
                        I just bought a td 8 and have pintech mesh pads.
                        I am a tweaking fool right now. thanks in advance.
                        Jeff

                        ------------------
                        Doh !!
                        The original Gig Pig.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is the technical forum!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by acidbran:
                            My question is : How do I set the sensitivity so that I can get the best natural feel and be soft and make the loudest point seem more like an acoustic set?
                            Jeff
                            Jeff,

                            I don't know if this is the easiest and/or preferred method, but here it goes.
                            I assume that your TD8 is midi connected to a PC (Hmmm... is this a reasonable assumption?):
                            • Download Midi-OX from http://www.midiox.com
                            • Start Midi-OX and hit a pad.
                            • if everything is configured ok, Midi-OX displays the Midi info from your TD8.(You might want to right click the main window, and select "Display Decimal" if you're not into hexadecimal numbers)
                            • Watch for the line that ends with "Note On". The value under Data2 is how "hard" the note sounds. Ideally you want the value for the softest note to be as close to zero as possible and the value for the loudest hit to be 127. Everything else should be evenly distributed between 0 and 127. This will give you optimum dynamics.
                            • Now, on your TD8 go to Setup -> Trig -> Basic. Fiddle with the sensitivity, threshold, curve and rim sensitivity. Use Midi-OX to get feedback.


                            Oh, yeah... be sure to make a backup of your TD8 first. Soon, you'll be able to use my program TD-M8 for this (plug,plug!) which will be realeased shortly. In the meantime you can use MIDI-OX for this.

                            Rob

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Bweir96,

                              you should certainly check out the ddrum4 set too. It has 1000 steps of velocity when played via pads and you can download very good sounds from the internet and dump them into the ddrum4 brain.

                              The ddrum pads are a bit noisier then the Rolands, there are no internal effects or sequencer which the V-drums do have.
                              Check out as much e-drum kits as possible and see what suits you best.

                              greetings,
                              Pieter
                              Music was my first love...

                              Comment

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