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Accusnare..

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  • Accusnare..

    Hello all,
    I got my TD-10s hook up to the BX kit yesterday. Overall I'm pretty satified although I am having one heck of a time trying to get the Accusnare sensitive enough to somewhat resemble an acoustic kit. I have used all the advice I have found on the forums and a letter from Peter. i.e.set on 12a, threshold down low, adjust sensitivity etc. Where it stands now is it is very insensitive and the sidestick sound triggers randomly when strikeing the center of the drum. I'm sure it is operator error yet I have run out of options on my own. Any one elses would be appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Kyle
    Kyle Davids
    Lefty's Hip Pocket
    My Inspiration

  • #2
    Try lowering the rim sensitivity to get rid of the sidestick triggering (sounds as if you need to lower the crosstick threshold if you are getting crosstick sounds before rimshot). Did you actually get the head to tune to the module? Play with the scan time if you have trouble with this. I would like to here more myself from users, I am debating picking up this snare myself. Does it tune well?

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey Sky10,

      I don't know what to tell you, I' am sorry to hear that the Acusnare is acting up.

      Lets try to go over a few issues.

      1. What exactly do you mean when you say: "trying to get the Accusnare sensitive enough to somewhat resemble an acoustic kit".
      What are you expecting the Acusnare to do in comparison to an acoustic snare?

      2. Pad type – 12A is correct

      3. Did you tighten the Acusnare head to your liking before you connected to the TD-10? Some times that could matter. You want to tighten the pads to suit your needs, than connect to the module and adjust the perimeters after.

      4. Adjusting Scan Time will help (try to do a search here on scan time, mask time, snare triggers or any other components that your TD-10 has that affect the triggers) you will find many situations that will help.

      5. When you say “sidestick”, are you referring to the rim going off? If that is the case, lower the rim trigger settings until the head shots do not trigger the rim.

      6. Most importantly: Are you running the snare separately from the TD-10 into a mixer channel? You will need to do this if you are not.


      I wish I could help more. I did praise the Hart products and I still stand behind them however.

      My 2-ply mesh head Acusnare (you did get the 2-ply mesh head, right) works without a problem.




      ------------------
      szvook
      Studio

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by szvook:
        Did you tighten the Acusnare head to your liking before you connected to the TD-10? Some times that could matter. You want to tighten the pads to suit your needs, than connect to the module and adjust the perimeters after.
        So you are actually saying the pad does not tune with the head tension adjustment of the module? Setup/F1 trigger/F4 option. I need to know this if at all possible.

        Comment


        • #5
          What I’ am trying to say BtnkBndt is this.

          All drums are pre-ten-sioned from the factory, but you may adjust them to your
          taste and playing style. Snare drums usually have the tightest tension, high tom next, then down to loosest on floor tom(s). It is important to adjust head tensions BEFORE set-ting up module, as different tensions will affect triggering characteristics slightly.

          I found this to be true in the case of using the Roland modules and different types of pads.


          ------------------
          szvook
          Studio

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BtnkBndt:
            So you are actually saying the pad does not tune with the head tension adjustment of the module? Setup/F1 trigger/F4 option. I need to know this if at all possible.
            You are correct, they do not work well with the head adjustment on the module. I think that it has something to do with the size (13 compared to the 12 roland). I have the acusnare and it works well with some of the snares in the module but not as well with others. I have the td-8 though. I have all hart pads and I think they are great, but the acusnare is not a turn key pad. It will take a bit of tweaking to get it to respond to your likings. As much as it hurts me to say this, I would probably stick to the roland pads for snare. I tried one and it worked better. The other hart pad work flawlessly for toms, bassdrum, and cymbals.
            One more thing, hart is a awesome company to work with. They are truly there for their customers.

            Kurt

            Kurt

            Pearl drums converted with hart adc, roland kd7's, pd 120 for snare, various roland rubber pads, hart e cymbals and pads, td8, td6, 2 mackie srm450s and mackie sub. mackie sr 24-4 mixer........and always growing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks Kurt,

              I really want to go to a larger snare than my pd-120 but I don't want to loose the positional aspects of the Roland. I've heard people claim they get positional with the Accusnare but no one has ever sad they have had success with the tension adjustment.

              I went ahead and picked up a 13" stage custom snare tonight. I think I'll try converting with Harts two ply and just see what results I get on my own. It's worth a shot anyway.

              Thanks again

              Comment


              • #8
                btnkbndt:

                Let me know how it works out for you.

                Kurt
                Kurt

                Pearl drums converted with hart adc, roland kd7's, pd 120 for snare, various roland rubber pads, hart e cymbals and pads, td8, td6, 2 mackie srm450s and mackie sub. mackie sr 24-4 mixer........and always growing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Remove the rubber rim trim and try again. This should work fine, once you adjust sensitivity down for a trimless rim.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    szvook,
                    Thanks for the reply,(as for everyone).
                    I have been up and down every adjustment in this thing. Scan, cancel, sensitivity, threshold, etc. but for some reason, when the head is hit about a third out from the rim, the rim triggers. The only way I have gotton it to stop is to turn it off. (Kind of a drag)

                    "Most importantly: Are you running the snare separately from the TD-10 into a mixer channel? You will need to do this if you are not."

                    You mean I need to put an external mixer in line between the TD-10 and the accusnare?
                    How would I have ever known that?
                    How would this help the triggering problem?
                    Not saying your wrong, I'm just confused now.

                    "What exactly do you mean when you say: "trying to get the Accusnare sensitive enough to somewhat resemble an acoustic kit".
                    What are you expecting the Acusnare to do in comparison to an acoustic snare"

                    The sensitivity on the toms are sweet. you can buzz roll on them and they trigger. The snare isn't even close. I have even tried copying the exact same settings from the toms for the snare. The threshold is all the way down, the sensitivity is up, head tension desirable, the positional awarness setup I have never gotton to work right no matter how I tune the drum, I read the manual cover to cover, I'm beginning to think that maybe it is either the drum or the fact it has the TDW in the unit. So, fortunatly I have another TD-10 sitting here without the expansion installed yet. I will try putting that up on the rack and see if that makes a difference. Good old process of elimination. Which makes me think again. Once you install the TDW, you can't uninstall it? hmmm. Oh yes, It is a 2-ply mesh head. The drum that is, not me I don't think,yet. Oh ya, on some of the kits, the bell of the ride insists on being a splash. I swear, I have checked and rechecked the inputs. All the cords were tagged and verified in the right place. The quest? To have a snare drum sensitive enough to play light goast notes-and no random sidestick sound in between. I'm rambling I know. I got a letter back from Peter H. he gave me some settings, and said that if I use them I would be able to sneeze on the drum and trigger it. I tried them but no luck. (heads a little slimey now)He told me if that didn't work,to contact him and he would set up the same senario then get back to me with the settings. Still waiting on them. Enough here. I must go tweak. Thanks all. There is a lot of useful knowledge in here. I'm sure "we" will get "My" problem fixed.
                    Kyle


                    Kyle Davids
                    Lefty's Hip Pocket
                    My Inspiration

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Forgive me but I feel compelled to write again. These last few hours of brainstorming have gotten interesting. After not getting my TD-10 /w expansion to work as I wanted to I decided to hook up a second one with no exp. (why do I have 2 TD-10s? A time for acknowledgement here. They are not "hot" nor am I wealthy. Just a favor from a very genuine friend in a very high position)Anyway, after hooking up the second module, their was no display. just a number, no display. Nothing like one step forward two steps back. So the natural thing to do is call tech support and arrange for a return. No,not me. Probably a stupid move but I decided to remove the rear cover from the unit to see if anything is disconnected. Glad I did. It was real simple,(no warranty labels torn)and there was a connector slightly ajar. Wahlah! The display is back. But after connecting the snare to the new module with no exp.,there was no difference.
                      Still not sensitive enough on the snare. With the snare halfway back in the box(figure of speech) I decide to try one more thing, perhaps the trigger in the middle of the drum is not close enough to the head. Forget technical, lets go common sense. So I take a piece of cloth and sandwich it between the center pick-up and the head. Well, low and behold, I have all the sensitivity I need! It works sweet. Now I have some room to work with on both ends. I'm still working on gating the rim shot a little better but the sensitivity on the head is sweet. Oh ya, what was this material I put between the head and trigger? The felt bag from the Harry Potter every flavor beans.Go figure..
                      If you have kids you will know what I'm talking about. Thanks for the help guys.
                      Thanks Harry...
                      Kyle Davids
                      Lefty's Hip Pocket
                      My Inspiration

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey Sky10,

                        Q: “You mean I need to put an external mixer in line between the TD-10 and the acusnare?”
                        A: Running the snare out-mono into a mixer and giving it its own channel will give you a better control over it and that will help with dynamics which can lead to snare response to recreate an acoustic snare.
                        To get any drum modules to

                        Q: “How would I have ever known that? ”
                        A: This forum helped a lot of drummer’s crossing over to edrums and I hope it will again in this case.

                        Q: “How would this help the triggering problem?”
                        A: By isolating the snare, the dynamics are pushed by the mixer’s gain, EQ to name a few. Thus the sensitivity of the rim could be minimized in order to prevent false triggering.

                        You might want to try turning the internal EQ & Ambience in the TD-10 off and giving it a try. Some people got bleeding though having these features on, which resulted in false triggering.

                        STATEMENT: “Not saying your wrong, I'm just confused now.”
                        REFLECTION on the STATEMENT: Its always trial and error.

                        Since Peter Hart mentioned to send it in, that would be the best way to find out if the acusnare WAS the guilty party all along. Peter Hart is a good guy to deal with.

                        I don’t want to say that maybe the TD-8 works better with Hart products then with the TD-10. There are many people on this forum that are using the TD-10 with the Hart products and they are OK with the combo. I personally have not played with your module-pads combination so my input is might be unjust in this case. With my TD-8 or even with my Simmons SDS-7, the Hart pads – especially the Acusnare perform flawlessly.

                        I have found that a lot of people from this forum are pushing the internal effects, dynamics (especially dynamics), even maybe pushing the gain, sensitivity of Roland TD’s. Which are causing the TD’s to respond with the kind of taste that made you go what the [email protected]#$% this is what I get!!
                        These TOYS if you will, require a marriage to a good rack with good signal processors and a good external mixer, so you can run your TD’s outputs and give the signal isolation and punch. Only then, playing even with your headphone on, will give you a good idea what the TD’s have to offer. Having a good PA is icing on the cake.

                        Other wise, your TD’s will never give you what you are hoping or read, heard about the Roland modules, or anything else out there in reference to digital and/or analog gear. Ask any audio engineer that is out there, especially with the type of equipment available and the type of music is NOW.

                        Again Sky10, that is just my own experience with the Roland & Hart combination. I hope some of this will help. I would definitely recommend sending the Acusnare back to Hart first before going with another pad type.




                        ------------------
                        szvook
                        Studio

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sky10,

                          Do not run anything between the pad and module but a cord. I believe he is talking about running a direct out from the module, this is not going to help your situation at all. Glad to see you have found a solution.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            szvook,
                            Make no dought about about it, your help, knowledge and patience have been well appreciated. Not to mention, just plain needed. When I had spoke to Peter he had stated that he would send me all the settings he came up with to get the snare working. At this time he didn't request me to ship back the unit. But if it comes down to it, I may just go ahead and return it if I don't get some of the other nuances worked out. As BtnkBndt stated, I just want to clarify, patch the snare out of one of the 3 direct out so it is isolated from the rest correct? I had misunderstood.
                            All, your help is much appreciated. As soon as Peter gets back to me I will post the settings he states.
                            Thanks,
                            Kyle
                            Kyle Davids
                            Lefty's Hip Pocket
                            My Inspiration

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hey Sky10,

                              Glad to see you sticking to the Acusnare-for now. Peter Hart is a good resource to have and he will certainly do his best to help.

                              As far as the snare direct out from your TD-10 goes. Running the snare into a channel of its own helps a lot if you really want to control your snare better. You get a channel for each piece of your drums when recording or mixing down when your acoustics are used. So since you can’t run a line from you edrum pad or cymbal into a mixer for your engineer to tweak, this way you can control your pad/cymbal signal individually and enhance it to make it sound like you don’t have an expensive toy only, but a serious piece of gear. This is a must if you are going to use the TD’s for professional applications. Otherwise, you are asking too much from your TD’s to do just out of the box.

                              To get an edrum to respond as close as you can to an acoustic drum, giving it its own channel in a outboard mixer, provides stronger signal perimeters that can bring out the dynamics thus relieving the TD’s internal components of the not so professional response they can produced if pushed. i.e.: False triggering, lack of punch and so on. The internal effects of the TD’s are responsible (in some cases) for misleading the user and creating a need to tweak the TD’s in a way that causes unpleasant experience with these PRICY toys.

                              This is no means a solution to your issue with the Acusnare. It is however the best way to use your TD’s and the potential they have. If the response from Peter Hart does not solve your issue, just return it and Peter Hart will get you a new one. I like his support approach to his product users.

                              Best of luck


                              ------------------
                              szvook
                              Studio

                              Comment

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