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Fast double bass rolls and electronics. Possible? Module settings?

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  • Fast double bass rolls and electronics. Possible? Module settings?

    Hey folks,

    I have an A2E kit with Quartz triggers and triple ply mesh heads. I use a roland TD-11 to output midi to my computer running SSD 5.5 and AD2.

    I decided to switch to an acoustic bass drum head for a couple of weeks, just for fun. Coincidentally I also decided I was going to finally get good at doing extended fast double bass rolls. I tightened up the springs on my pedal and started practicing the heel toe kick method with double strokes. For the first time in years, I FINALLY started getting the hang of it and was able to play extended fast double bass rolls. I then put my mesh head back on went back to using a trigger. When I went to do the double bass rolls, without the module turned on, it still sounded great (so the mesh head is fine), but then when I put the module on and put the headphones on, I immediately ran into issues. A quarter of my hits, particularly the double strokes, were not picked up and not played at all. Another quarter registered but came out with a machine gun effect. Another quarter it picked up more than it should(double trigger). The final quarter played just fine.

    Gahhh...Is this fixable with module settings? What should I be looking for?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by NullQwerty; 04-19-21, 09:18 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by NullQwerty View Post
    Hey folks,

    I have an A2E kit with Quartz triggers and triple ply mesh heads. I use a roland TD-11 to output midi to my computer running SSD 5.5 and AD2.

    I decided to switch to an acoustic bass drum head for a couple of weeks, just for fun. Coincidentally I also decided I was going to finally get good at doing extended fast double bass rolls. I tightened up the springs on my pedal and started practicing the heel toe kick method with double strokes. For the first time in years, I FINALLY started getting the hang of it and was able to play extended fast double bass rolls. I then put my mesh head back on went back to using a trigger. When I went to do the double bass rolls, without the module turned on, it still sounded great (so the mesh head is fine), but then when I put the module on and put the headphones on, I immediately ran into issues. A third of my hits, particularly the double strokes, were not picked up and not played at all. Another third registered but came out with a machine gun effect. The final third played just fine.

    Gahhh...Is this fixable with module settings? What should I be looking for?

    Thanks!
    Retrig cancel needs to be lowered maybe?

    Edit: Sorry, I meant mask time. Roland named the retrig cancel and mask time bacwards. Mask time should have been called retrig cancel and vice versa.
    Last edited by frankzappa; 04-19-21, 11:18 PM.

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    • #3
      Thanks. I do have some threads pulled up with different advice for settings I can try. People rarely say if it works for them though except for owners of the newer and expensive modules. Guess I first just wanted to ensure I could expect to eliminate this, before I invested too many hours. Should it be easily possible with a td11kv that outputs mdi to a vst?

      Thanks again

      Comment


      • #4
        To confirm; You're playing with a single pedal on a single Kick Drum into Trigger Input 1 on the TD-11?
        You're not using a double pedal, or single pedals on double Kick Drums connected together to Trigger Input 1 on the TD-11?

        These are the controls that influence how the module interprets the vibrations of the head, and therefore the maximum speed of roll that can be performed reliably.
        See Owner's Manual Pages 43-44

        Retrig Cancel - Although setting this to a high value prevents re-triggering, it then becomes easy for sounds to be omitted when the drums played fast (roll etc.). Set this to the lowest value possible while still ensuring that there is no re-triggering.
        You can also eliminate this problem of re-triggering with the Mask Time setting (p. 44). Mask Time does not detect trigger signals if they occur within the specified amount of time after the previous trigger signal was received. Retrig Cancel detects the attenuation of the trigger signal level, and triggers the sound after internally determining which trigger signals were actually generated when the head was struck, while weeding out the other false trigger signals that need not trigger a sound.

        Mask Time - Once a pad has been hit, any additional trigger signals occurring within the specified “Mask Time” (0–64 msec) will be ignored.
        Adjust the “Mask Time” value while playing the pad. When using a kick trigger, try to let the beater bounce back and hit the head very quickly, then raise the
        “Mask Time” value until there are no more sounds made by the beater rebound.
        * When set to a high value, it will be difficult to play very quickly. Set this to as low a value as you can.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tkydon View Post
          To confirm; You're playing with a single pedal on a single Kick Drum into Trigger Input 1 on the TD-11?
          You're not using a double pedal, or single pedals on double Kick Drums connected together to Trigger Input 1 on the TD-11?
          No sorry. I should have mentioned. I have a double pedal and both beaters are hitting a single trigger located at the center of the bass drum.

          Thanks for the great response. Will mess with these settings. Does my setup change anything?

          Comment


          • #6
            OK, so, reduce the Mask Time to zero. Then, reduce the Retrig Cancel to very low.
            Try a single hit - Right Foot - and see if you get any retrigger double sounds. Increase Retrig Cancel until it just stops happening.
            Now try with the double pedal at your fast pace...
            You may need to increase Retrig Cancel and or Mask Time to eliminate any spurious hits, but not to the point that they affect your actual hits.

            Comment


            • #7
              Just adding...
              All the previous recommendations make sense. Since this is an a2e, I would also check the tension on the head. It might contribute. Mine was too loose and it was mis-triggering (not capturing well). I had to tighten it, which caused some double triggering. Then, as mentioned on the previous messages, I had to work a bit with the settings to eliminate the double triggering.
              And after all these settings and sorting out the mistriggering issue, hit the bass drum with one pedal multiple times with the same velocity. If you feel the hits are not consistent (different velocities while hitting with the same strength), then you can work with the scan time.
              Last edited by ronaldobf; 04-21-21, 05:45 PM.
              Ronaldo B.

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