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Hihat implementation question

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  • Hihat implementation question

    I'm doing some development on the hihat implementation for eDRUMin and I'm curious what you think I should do about a situation when the hihat (on a stand) is fully depressed, and then the foot is quickly taken on the hihat pedal.

    The movement of the hihat cymbal causes it to trigger. Is this something I should be filtering out? What happens when you do that on a Roland or Yamaha module?

  • #2
    Originally posted by yeahtuna View Post
    I'm doing some development on the hihat implementation for eDRUMin and I'm curious what you think I should do about a situation when the hihat (on a stand) is fully depressed, and then the foot is quickly taken on the hihat pedal.

    The movement of the hihat cymbal causes it to trigger. Is this something I should be filtering out? What happens when you do that on a Roland or Yamaha module?
    Could you post a video on what you mean?

    Comment


    • #3
      I had this issue with my VH-11. The culprit is the pedal board hitting the stopper at the end of travel. The upwards jolt gets sent into the hi-hat clutch and bow piezo. I heard the VH-10 has slighter better dampening to prevent this, as well as being lighter in weight - which would help.

      I reduced it in 3 ways though;

      1) By raising my foot-board on my Tama Speedcobra (I appreciate not all pedals can do this) there is a felt washer to cushion the motion end, on the higher foot-board settings, the spring isn't as compressed at the end of travel, and so, reduces the impact jolt on the washer.

      2) Reduce spring tension, at the compromise of slower hi-hat motion and more pedal xtalk.

      3) Increase hi-hat bow thresholds at the compromise of losing light hits / sensitivity.

      I can only imagine how you would begin to fix this in an algorithm; perhaps I would first track upwards motion speed on the sensor and then blocking bow notes from the hihat (for e.g. 20ms) if a sudden stop occurs at CC 0 (or 127, if levels are reversed). That might work?
      Last edited by Kabonfaiba; 08-10-20, 07:24 PM.
      ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
      ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
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      • #4
        While filtering it out is not exactly trivial, I certainly have some good strategies to do it. My question is should I? It seems like doing the same on a real hihat would likely cause the hihat cymbals to ring out a bit. Maybe this is a situation where I shouldn't be trying to fight physics. Sounds like the Roland module is not doing anything special to filter it out.

        Comment


        • #5
          With real life acoustic hats, that scenario would yield some kind of muted splash sound, but I don't think very many players deliberately use it. I don't think any VST has a specific sample for it. Depending on how vigorously I remove my foot, I can get my TD-9 to generate a soft splash sound, but in normal playing situations it's not something I would notice. As long as your implementation doesn't yield some crazy ass loud noise I probably wouldn't bother filtering it out.
          Module: TD-9v2. Kick: KD-8, pedal: Iron Cobra with KAT Silent Strike beater. Hats: VH-10 with Tama Swivel hi-hat stand. Snare: PD-120. Toms: 3 x PD-80R. Crashes: CY-12RC, CY-14. Ride: CY-15R. Aux: BT-1.

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          • #6
            If I'm understanding it correctly it is when the hihat is fully open and then it is suddently closed. The piezo gets triggered from the accelleration from fully open to when it starts moving or the tap of the foot on the pedal.

            If this is what you mean then I wouldn't try to filter it out.

            However if you want to do it I guess you could filter it out by slightly raising the threshold for just 2-3 ms in that situation. It is very unlikely that a soft bow hit would occur during that sudden foot movement.

            I would make it very subtle in that case, I'd rather have a weak false trigger in that case vs missing a bow hit if I hit it at the same time as I'm closing it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by frankzappa View Post
              If I'm understanding it correctly it is when the hihat is fully open and then it is suddently closed. The piezo gets triggered from the accelleration from fully open to when it starts moving or the tap of the foot on the pedal.
              Fully closed and abruptly opened, I think.
              Audiofront eDrumIn. Triggering mainly SD3.

              Yamaha Cymbals, drum-tec HiHat Ctl, DW PDP Drumset with Jobeky Triggers and drumtec Pro Snare. Zoom UAC-2 Interface.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by holzi2000 View Post

                Fully closed and abruptly opened, I think.
                He says "fully depressed". Does that mean the hihat is fully closed (fully pressed down) or fully opened? "De", "pressed" to me sounds like something not pressed. He then says the foot is taken "on" the pedal quickly which to me also suggests he means the hihat is opened and then is quickly closed with the foot.

                However english is not my native tongue.

                Comment


                • #9
                  As you say, for a real Hi-Hat, if you open the Hi-Hat in a certain way, even without opening it all the way with your foot off the pedal, you can get the hats to rattle together which continues to an open splash.

                  I can do the same on my VH-11 on TD-20X.

                  I think you should leave it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Frank's (first language Swedish) look into the hi-hat nomenclature made me laugh because I (first language English) also started getting confused .

                    "when the hihat (on a stand) is fully depressed, and then the foot is quickly taken on the hihat pedal."

                    Rob, did you mean - when the hi-hat is fully pressed and the the foot is quickly taken off the hihat pedal?

                    Ludwig Accent 5 piece kit | UFO Drums ebridges, 3 ply mesh heads and rim protectors | Yamaha PCY135 on Ludwig stand with DIY hall effect sensor | Yamaha PCY155 ride | DIY Pintech 2 zone crashes with Goedrums piezo's - Myrk membranes| eDRUMin ED10 | Cantabile VST host | Superior Drummer and Jamstix kits | Alto TS115a monitors | IK ARC 3

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                    • #11
                      "Depressed" and "pressed" are synonyms in this usage. It's one of those quirks of English, like "flammable" and "inflammable"
                      https://www.instagram.com/bpaluzzi/

                      ad5 // SPD-SX // DTXMulti12 // drumbrute // DFAM

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                      • #12
                        Hi Rob,

                        Would the the rapid foot chicks that sometimes don't trigger fall into this discussion? It might be my technique lacking but after reading Nick74's solution which is to switch to assigned notes rather than CC in order to do what he calls stepping that I played around with faster tempo foot chicks and notice that some don't trigger in Superior Drummer. Nick claims the issue is with Superior Drummer. I have yet to need to play that in a song but found the problem interesting.

                        Doug
                        Ludwig Accent 5 piece kit | UFO Drums ebridges, 3 ply mesh heads and rim protectors | Yamaha PCY135 on Ludwig stand with DIY hall effect sensor | Yamaha PCY155 ride | DIY Pintech 2 zone crashes with Goedrums piezo's - Myrk membranes| eDRUMin ED10 | Cantabile VST host | Superior Drummer and Jamstix kits | Alto TS115a monitors | IK ARC 3

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bpaluzzi View Post
                          "Depressed" and "pressed" are synonyms in this usage. It's one of those quirks of English, like "flammable" and "inflammable"
                          Yes but the question is if yeahtuna is a native english speaker?

                          I know that depressed is actually pressed but since he said foot taken ”on” the pedal it made me wonder because ”de” pressed sounds more natural to me as well to mean not pressed.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dsteinschneider View Post
                            Frank's (first language Swedish) look into the hi-hat nomenclature made me laugh because I (first language English) also started getting confused .

                            "when the hihat (on a stand) is fully depressed, and then the foot is quickly taken on the hihat pedal."

                            Rob, did you mean - when the hi-hat is fully pressed and the the foot is quickly taken off the hihat pedal?
                            It’s even more complicated. My native language is Bosnian and now it’s swedish (I suck at bosnian now) Haha

                            It can get weird in three languages for me now.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I mean from the pedal fully pressed down and then released, and yes I'm a native speaker! I've decided not to try to filter it out. In my testing, I've noticed that SD 3 is a bit funny with the hihat CC information and rapid movements. It think it's as a result of the way it tried to blend sounds together. You can end up with some really strange artifacts, albeit only when playing in an unnatural way. Does anyone know how to disable the transmutation (is that what it's called?) of hihat sounds in SD3?

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