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Interface and system requirements? - TDW-20 - Start with VXP/custom eventual VST?

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  • Interface and system requirements? - TDW-20 - Start with VXP/custom eventual VST?

    Basically want to improve sounds/kits on new-to-me TDW-20, get into online jamming and work my way toward VST as money/time allows.

    Looking for recommendations on interfaces that will provide:
    • Connect via USB 3.0 to my Win10 laptop
    • Midi to support use with evolving VST setup
    • Best possible latency results with my laptop computer
    Best I have narrowed to is Behringer U-Phoria UMC204HD but open to suggestions? Reviews spotlight many options that seem to lack 1 desirable/needed feature. This Behringer fits my budget range of approx $150 or less.
    I have looked at iRig Pro...looks cool but reviews leave Qs...worth even considering?

    Laptop is Lenovo t440p Think Pad, i7, 8GB ram, 500gb
    I’m not clear if I can connect any faster than the USB 3.0?
    I’ve read here on forum “(PCIMIA/cardbus if using a laptop). For the best "real-time" audio performance, look for PCI or Firewire.”Not clear if I can do this with some sort of pcmcia cardbus (adapter) on my system?

    Last I traveled down this HW/SW rabbit hole was 20+ years ago when I started in with my 1st eDrumkit, a Yamaha DTX...the first one I think. PC recording was a vicious and costly cycle of upgrades and learning curves keeping up...even gearing up to begin with. The tech was advancing every day but always falling short. Recall my last pro audio card purchase was an Event Gina, giant tower system had laughable spec (and cost) by today’s standards, but it got me jamming online and early exp with Cakewalk, Qbase VST, Soundforge, Logic...names some here may remember.

    Anyway, huge thanks in advance for any sage advice on the interface to get me started, ++ for any know on the laptop meeting min requirements for a VST rig.

    Cheers all ><(((*<
    Roland TDW-20 | Gibraltar HW | KZ ZS10 PRO/IEMs | TD-10 | DW | Zildjian K

  • #2
    Try Zoom usb Interfaces (whacky quality, low hp out, not much driver support, no additional hp out, not modular, no additional ins possible) or Rme...pci not possible with your laptop, unless you have an old pcimia port, older thinkpad have this.

    i would recommend building a cheap dedicated pc (available for 200 Euro) up to 8 years old i5 is sufficient, with Rme aio.....pci Express or cheaper with Rme 9632 used under 150 you need old pci slot for this.

    connect with old midi cable
    Last edited by Ribot; 04-14-20, 06:30 AM.
    Desktop PC I5 Asus, Asus P8Z77, RME AIO, RME ADI2pro, RME Digiface USB, Mac Air 2014, Zoom Tac2r, Apollo Twin MKI Solo TD30, Vh13, Drum Tec pro pads, BFD3, Henry Hirsch, Peter Erskine, Evil Drums, Superior 3.0, Decades, Cubase 10, Reaper, Ludwig 67 Kit all sizes from 22, Ludwig Cob, 4*14, Slingerland 50s, Paiste Modern Ess, Zildjian Constantinople

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    • #3
      Zoom UAC-2 is the best bang for your buck. Get it used.

      Comment


      • #4
        tdw-20 and what hihat ? a vh-12 ? it's going to take a pretty good pc and interface to match hihat performance of a tdw20 on a vst..
        (it's actually pretty good) so are a lot of the sounds (cymbals) another thought would be, using a used 2box 5 for toms and snares..
        especially if you use the same laptop for that online jamming .. (that plus running a vst might not work that well..)
        Audio | Video | Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

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        • #5
          No, it does not take a “pretty good pc”, it does take a 9 year old i5 when you use a rme pci interface....using superiors latest decades and Hansa....
          Desktop PC I5 Asus, Asus P8Z77, RME AIO, RME ADI2pro, RME Digiface USB, Mac Air 2014, Zoom Tac2r, Apollo Twin MKI Solo TD30, Vh13, Drum Tec pro pads, BFD3, Henry Hirsch, Peter Erskine, Evil Drums, Superior 3.0, Decades, Cubase 10, Reaper, Ludwig 67 Kit all sizes from 22, Ludwig Cob, 4*14, Slingerland 50s, Paiste Modern Ess, Zildjian Constantinople

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          • #6
            sure, RME pci but he doesn't have that.. then he has to buy a legacy mobo with pci slots .. can be done.. ..i'm just venting 'another' option..
            Audio | Video | Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

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            • #7
              Your laptop is fine DrumFish; an Intel Core i7-4700MQ and 8GB DDR3 RAM fits the minimum requirements for SD3. You may wish to consider upgrading it with a SSD in the future though.

              With your small budget I would only recommend the Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen. It will do lower ASIO latency than the Behringer UMC204HD - which is all that really matters!

              Focus your money at a company writing good ASIO drivers first.

              If you're thinking about building a new PC just so you can use a PCI sound card - I would stop you, and say use that extra money to buy an RME Babyface, you have a decent enough laptop already.
              ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
              ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
              PA Comparison Sheet

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey All,

                Thank you for all the feedback!

                Main focus right now is to obtain the interface, one that will allow some room to grow.
                This will get me linked to computer so I can start playing with sounds using drumtec-kits, drumlib, and maybe a vexpressions pack before I dive in with both feet.

                Plenty to consider for the future dive into VST.
                I really like idea of working off a laptop and was hopeful my old work laptop (employee buy-back) would fit the bill. Seems they just did away with PCI slot in this at-time new model. I have seen SSD is way to go...my new work laptop has SSD and is waaaayy faster machine. So this is a list item for laptop any way I go.

                I do have a tower system I can throw at this but rather not...

                Again THANKS! ><(((*<
                Roland TDW-20 | Gibraltar HW | KZ ZS10 PRO/IEMs | TD-10 | DW | Zildjian K

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just thinking through desktop option a little more here...I do have a local friend who builds sound cards. Maybe he might have a discontinued/legacy card I can pick up at affordable price. He makes mostly high-end stuff.
                  In case some of the more advanced here are interested, you might see something you can use?
                  https://www.lynxstudio.com/products/
                  Roland TDW-20 | Gibraltar HW | KZ ZS10 PRO/IEMs | TD-10 | DW | Zildjian K

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lynx makes exceptional audio interfaces, trading scores with RME in benchmarks.

                    But afaik they don't even offer any prosumer products to match the Babyface. Minimum spend 700 new, 400 used - for one of their PCI sound cards.
                    ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
                    ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
                    PA Comparison Sheet

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kabonfaiba View Post
                      With your small budget I would only recommend the Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen. It will do lower ASIO latency than the Behringer UMC204HD - which is all that really matters!

                      Focus your money at a company writing good ASIO drivers first.
                      I looked into Babyface, looks like a sweet solution, but too much for my budget currently. I did see one on Craigslist for $300 about 1.5 hr drive away, in the desert...no pix.

                      So I looked closely at the Focusrite offerings and found the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (2nd Gen) had the closest match on features I am looking for. Namely a MIDI connection which the Solo 3rd Gen lacks. The reason I’m leaning toward a 2nd Gen model is because in the newer 4i4 3rd Gen model they have moved physical knobs and switches from front of box...into software controls. For checking latency and jam-along playing, I want mix/playback control to be easy and quick sitting at kit, not fumbling in computer.
                      https://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-Sca...cm_wl_huc_item

                      Q: with respect to ASIO drivers and performance, do you think there is that much difference between 2nd and 3rd Gen?
                      Roland TDW-20 | Gibraltar HW | KZ ZS10 PRO/IEMs | TD-10 | DW | Zildjian K

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DrumFish View Post

                        I looked into Babyface, looks like a sweet solution, but too much for my budget currently. I did see one on Craigslist for $300 about 1.5 hr drive away, in the desert...no pix.

                        So I looked closely at the Focusrite offerings and found the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (2nd Gen) had the closest match on features I am looking for. Namely a MIDI connection which the Solo 3rd Gen lacks. The reason I’m leaning toward a 2nd Gen model is because in the newer 4i4 3rd Gen model they have moved physical knobs and switches from front of box...into software controls. For checking latency and jam-along playing, I want mix/playback control to be easy and quick sitting at kit, not fumbling in computer.
                        https://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-Sca...cm_wl_huc_item

                        Q: with respect to ASIO drivers and performance, do you think there is that much difference between 2nd and 3rd Gen?
                        If you can afford higher models of the Focusrite Scarlett (2i4, 4i4) yes, you should buy them instead, because I was merely trying to get as close to the UMC204HD price as possible.

                        I can't find a good answer if latency has been reduced in the 3rd Gen. If it has, it's not by much, since I'm seeing average reports of 4-5ms RTL between 3rd Gen vs 2nd Gen in reviews. The differences seem to be mostly in the pre-amp capabilities being a bit better on the 3rd Gen (which is only relivant if you are plugging in a microphone).

                        [USB C] This connection upgrade is not only more convenient it also boosts device speeds and makes latency virtually unperceivable.
                        USB C is the only major thing going for 3rd Gen when using it strictly for ASIO, but there's no evidence to suggest changing the USB type decreases latency.

                        Focusrite aren't using the same (or a universal) driver between 2nd and 3rd which suggests a separate development pipeline for the 3rd Gen.
                        Last edited by Kabonfaiba; 04-20-20, 12:11 PM.
                        ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
                        ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
                        PA Comparison Sheet

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kabonfaiba View Post
                          If you can afford higher models of the Focusrite Scarlett (2i4, 4i4) yes, you should buy them instead, because I was merely trying to get as close to the UMC204HD price as possible.
                          Thanks again for feedback. After allot of searching and researching and consternation I went ahead and pulled trigger on Scarlett 2i4.
                          Had a friend step in and offer try-before-buy on 2 PreSonus interfaces he had available...but decided against an additional exercise with drivers/soft.
                          2i4 won’t arrive till mid-May...but looking forward to getting up and running with online jamming and exploring new drumkit possibilities.
                          Roland TDW-20 | Gibraltar HW | KZ ZS10 PRO/IEMs | TD-10 | DW | Zildjian K

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            for a vst to get started at exactly the right price, check this thread:

                            https://www.vdrums.com/forum/advance...h-pro-features
                            Roland TD9 (KD8, FD9), Yamaha DTX Multi12 (KT10, HH65, TP100), Zendrum EXP (Stompblock) || Scarlett 6i6 > imac; 2i4 >macbook || Superior Drummer 3, Logic || Yamaha HS7s, Yamaha DBR10, ATH-M30x || DIY compact a-kit, Mapex Meridian, Zildjian Ks, some As and Sabians and ... || youtube

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                            • #15
                              For your TDW-20 upgraded TD-20, I suggest you download the Owner Manuals for the TD-20X from Roland Support. This is exactly the same as the TDW-20 enhanced TD-20, and there are significant changes from the original TD-20 Manual, but that are not all covered in the Little manual that came with the TDW-20 board itself.

                              VExpressions Kits will just be loaded into the TD-20X Module as loading any Kit, or you can run the Kit from CompactFlash. See TD-20X Owner's Manual Page 121.
                              This has nothing to do with the MIDI Output to the PC, VST, etc..
                              You can use all VExpression Kits for TD-20X and TD,20.
                              VDrumLib Software allows you to edit Kits and Flash Backups. It also allows you to change Kits for another module to TD-20X, if they are compatible.

                              If you want to expand your kit, I wrote a step by step guide to configuring Percussions Sets with the TD-20X and TMC-6- See the Zip file I attached to the last post in the Sticky Topic TD-20 and TMC-6.
                              You can use the same concept with a TM2 or TM6...

                              If you are looking for Online Jamming Resources, I found

                              https://reverb.com/news/ways-to-coll...music-remotely

                              Jammr
                              https://jammr.net/howitworks.html
                              It cheats.
                              jammr is live but not real-time. You hear what others played last time around the chord progression, and they hear what you played last time. This way jammr works great even on high-latency internet connections!
                              If you're wondering how this works musically, imagine playing a note over the G chord that I'm playing. The note sounds good over a G chord regardless of whether it's the G chord that I'm playing right now or if it's the G chord I played last time around the chord progression. This is how jammr allows you to jam with people around the world without worrying about latency.
                              Most users perceive jammr as real-time because it feels natural!

                              Jamkazam
                              https://www.jamkazam.com/

                              Jamtaba
                              is a free, open-source software that hosts virtual jam sessions.
                              Not sure how well….

                              Jamulus

                              Only Jamulus would seem to cut the Latency low enough to make it even remotely possible to jam in real time with remote players over the Internet.. Jamulus is Only Audio, to get the Latency as low as possible. Video would have to be done with something else, but would be completely out of Sync… Links for Jamulus:

                              http://llcon.sourceforge.net/
                              https://github.com/corrados/jamulus/wiki
                              https://sourceforge.net/projects/llcon/

                              and read the note at

                              https://handsomejacks.co.uk/index.ph...actice-online/

                              http://llcon.sourceforge.net/servermanual.html


                              Any old software, Google Hangouts, Apple Facetime, Zoom, Webex, Microsoft Teams, etc… will work with varying results if all members are together in the same physical location and streaming to a remote audience, as this is not latency dependent, but if the members are in different locations these platforms would present much too much latency and would be absolutely impossible.










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