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TD-27 latency measurements

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  • TD-27 latency measurements

    ​Here are the measurements of the latency on my TD-27 module.
    Two triggering methods were tested:
    1. Internal sound generator
    2. TD-27-USB Midi output to Superior Drummer 3 and USB audio back to TD-27-phones output.

    Test setup – internal sound generator:
    “User kit”, clean kit, no overheads, no room mics, no effects.
    Trigger threshold = 2
    Trigger scan time = 2.0ms
    Tom1 trigger => probe (red trace) => TD-27-phones output => probe (blue trace).
    Result: 3.1ms latency (including scan time).

    td-27_latency_sound_gen.png

    Test setup – TD-27 – to Superior Drummer 3:
    PC spec: i5-3570 @3.4GHz; 16GB RAM; Windows 10 Home Edition. TD-27 connected to USB socket on the mother board.
    “SD3 default kit”, clean kit.
    Trigger threshold = 2
    Trigger scan time = 2.0ms
    Tom1 trigger => probe (red trace) => TD-27-USB Midi out => PC-SD3 => USB audio => TD-27-phones output => probe (blue trace).

    ASIO buffer = 64 samples.
    ASIO output latency = 6.8ms (reported by the driver).
    ASIO buffer latency = 1.5ms (reported by the driver).
    ASIO sample rate = 44.1kHz
    Result: 11.91ms actual latency (including scan time)

    td-27_latency_sd3_64_samples.png

    ASIO buffer = 96 samples.
    ASIO output latency = 8.8ms (reported by the driver).
    ASIO buffer latency = 2.2ms (reported by the driver).
    ASIO sample rate = 44.1kHz
    Result: 14.64ms actual latency (including scan time)

    td-27_latency_sd3_96_samples.png

    ASIO buffer = 128 samples.
    ASIO output latency = 14.7ms (reported by the driver).
    ASIO buffer latency = 2.9ms (reported by the driver).
    ASIO sample rate = 44.1kHz
    Result: 19.68ms actual latency (including scan time)

    td-27_latency_sd3_128_samples.png


  • #2
    that's some shocking numbers ? i think it would be better with standard DIN (old) midi straight into a good ASIO soundcard, Zoom, ESI, RME ..
    Audio | Video | Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

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    • #3
      PC and only USB Roland => horrible!!!!! I already stated that.....
      Desktop PC I5 Asus, Asus P8Z77, RME AIO, RME ADI2pro, RME Digiface USB, Mac Air 2014, Zoom Tac2r, Apollo Twin MKI Solo TD30, Vh13, Drum Tec pro pads, BFD3, Henry Hirsch, Peter Erskine, Evil Drums, Superior 3.0, Decades, Cubase 10, Reaper, Ludwig 67 Kit all sizes from 22, Ludwig Cob, 4*14, Slingerland 50s, Paiste Modern Ess, Zildjian Constantinople

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      • #4
        This comparison is not very useful. This will depend on what sound card that was used. In fact I'm surprised you got latencies that low with what I'm assuming is the built in sound card.

        Back in the day around 2012 when I was playing edrums I was getting 3.5-4 ms total latency with superior drummer. I had an ESI PCIx sound card that was only adding 1.5ms of output latency. Nowadays PCI express sound cards are difficult to find for cheaps so that kind of sucks but the zoom UAC-2 is pretty affordable and comes close.

        Of course if you have thunderbolt there is the presonus quantum that will give you very, very low latencies. Also there is the zoom TAC which is the thunderbolt version of the UAC (although not much faster than the UAC).

        The roland module seems to add 1.1ms of audio latency, the scan time is 2ms and the calculations should be very fast so 1.1ms is for the audio only. This is comparable to a good sound card for music production.
        Last edited by frankzappa; 04-13-20, 10:00 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by frankzappa View Post
          This comparison is not very useful. This will depend on what sound card that was used. In fact I'm surprised you got latencies that low with what I'm assuming is the built in sound card.
          My original post is only for reference/information on what I'm getting on my setup, without any external audio/midi interfaces.

          I have an on-board sound card in my PC however, it was not used for the above tests. Audio signal generated by SD3 was sent from the PC to TD-27 module over USB audio, not through any sound card. The latency results above are for the round trip from TD-27 to the PC and back to TD-27.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 8thnotepete View Post

            My original post is only for reference/information on what I'm getting on my setup, without any external audio/midi interfaces.

            I have an on-board sound card in my PC however, it was not used for the above tests. Audio signal generated by SD3 was sent from the PC to TD-27 module over USB audio, not through any sound card. The latency results above are for the round trip from TD-27 to the PC and back to TD-27.
            Am I missing something here?

            Are you saying the TD27 has a built in sound card (some say sound interface, it's same thing)? Either that or you have misunderstood how this works.

            By "sound card" (or sound interface) I mean the sound processing on the computer. It can be buit in on the motherboard or a USB sound card/interface etc. SD3 does NOT generate any sound, it is done by your sound card on the motherboard or if you have an external sound card.

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            • #7
              Newer Roland Moduls like TD30, Td27, TD50 (probably other) have a soundinterface/driver implemented, yes......
              Desktop PC I5 Asus, Asus P8Z77, RME AIO, RME ADI2pro, RME Digiface USB, Mac Air 2014, Zoom Tac2r, Apollo Twin MKI Solo TD30, Vh13, Drum Tec pro pads, BFD3, Henry Hirsch, Peter Erskine, Evil Drums, Superior 3.0, Decades, Cubase 10, Reaper, Ludwig 67 Kit all sizes from 22, Ludwig Cob, 4*14, Slingerland 50s, Paiste Modern Ess, Zildjian Constantinople

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              • #8
                Originally posted by frankzappa View Post

                Am I missing something here?

                Are you saying the TD27 has a built in sound card (some say sound interface, it's same thing)? Either that or you have misunderstood how this works.

                By "sound card" (or sound interface) I mean the sound processing on the computer. It can be buit in on the motherboard or a USB sound card/interface etc. SD3 does NOT generate any sound, it is done by your sound card on the motherboard or if you have an external sound card.
                You could consider TD-27 as a sound card. It's essentially a USB DAC (Digital to Analog Converter).
                It all works like this:
                SD3 is receiving a midi note from TD-27, selects appropriate sample sound (a file or part of the file) and sends it back through to TD-27 DAC as USB audio (digital PCM data).
                TD-27 receives this data, decodes it and plays the sound in the headphones connected to it.

                I have my SD3 configured for TD27 as sound device.

                sd3_asio_device.pngsd3_asio_device_output.png

                If I wanted to use my PC's sound card I would have to configure SD3 sound device like this:

                sd3_windows_device.pngsd3_windows_device_output.png

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                • #9
                  The Roland module is a miserable Asio device. (It proofs Roland hates software drumming...LOL....)

                  The midi latency is very good so you can get about 6-7 ms total software drumming latency using a fast audio interface.

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                  • #10
                    Sound card built in are cheap, don't expect quality sound card and performance.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 8thnotepete View Post

                      You could consider TD-27 as a sound card. It's essentially a USB DAC (Digital to Analog Converter).
                      It all works like this:
                      SD3 is receiving a midi note from TD-27, selects appropriate sample sound (a file or part of the file) and sends it back through to TD-27 DAC as USB audio (digital PCM data).
                      TD-27 receives this data, decodes it and plays the sound in the headphones connected to it.

                      I have my SD3 configured for TD27 as sound device.

                      sd3_asio_device.pngsd3_asio_device_output.png

                      If I wanted to use my PC's sound card I would have to configure SD3 sound device like this:

                      sd3_windows_device.pngsd3_windows_device_output.png
                      Ok, so you are testing the buit in sound card of the TD27, I didn't know it had one.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by frankzappa View Post

                        Ok, so you are testing the buit in sound card of the TD27, I didn't know it had one.
                        Yes all the same basic card, Spd-SX\ Td11\ Td15\ Td17\ Td25 \ Td27\ Td30\ Td50
                        Last edited by Chris K; 04-13-20, 03:24 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Goodness, I hope the negativity isn't being directed at the OP.

                          I think you've done an excellent investigation, 8thnotepete.

                          The TD-27 is a relatively new module from Roland and here is concrete evidence that there have, still, been no improvements made to this important function. Revealing the need to have dedicated audio hardware and a native ASIO driver rather than Roland's own modules, which just shouldn't be the case when one is spending over a thousand!

                          Interested to know, is there an average percentage increase in latency difference in real life, from the reported numbers in SD3? or do we need more testing?
                          ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
                          ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
                          PA Comparison Sheet

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kabonfaiba View Post
                            still, been no improvements made to this important function. Revealing the need to have dedicated audio hardware and a native ASIO driver rather than Roland's own modules, which just shouldn't be the case when one is spending over a thousand!
                            Roland don't use expensive hardware, their DAC cost 3x less then burr brown converter.
                            Last edited by Chris K; 04-13-20, 05:08 PM.

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                            • #15
                              While you are at it, could you test the built in sound card with asioforall drivers just as a comparison? I bet it's not much worse than the built in roland card

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