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extending pedal movement range for hi hat?

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  • extending pedal movement range for hi hat?

    I have a TD-1DMK kit and got a Roland FD7 pedal thinking it would be nicer than the one that came with the kit.

    My issue is that most of the pedal range doesn't actually do anything....hats are fully open 'til you've pressed most of the way down, then you finally hit the middle stage(s).

    Using the module's native sounds it's almost impossible to hit that partway open sound (in module, there are only open, partway, and closed--3 stages). I go through superior drummer most of the time for the larger variety of kits/better sounds. Superior has something like 5-6 stages between open and closed. They're all there; I can cycle through them by slowly closing or opening the pedal, but the issue is the same...it's completely open until the last, say, half inch of motion it has, then all the in-between stages are crammed together until it closes.

    I am wondering if there is any way to stretch the motion range from open to close (in other words, making it so that fully open is with the pedal physically as high as it will go/foot off it completely, and closed at the bottom where it won't move anymore, with the semi-open stages spread out evenly in between). . .either by tweaking something in the module, or superior, or possibly with a separate trigger (e.g. goedrums) and a real hi hat stand or am I just limited by this lower end module?

    I've messed with the calibration tool in Superior but doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

    Thanks.


  • #2
    Well, is this behaviour not close to an actual acoustic hihat?
    E-kit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vpx92wez8v...3558.jpg?raw=1
    A-kit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vxkwbj1rv7...345-1.jpg?raw=1
    TD-30, KT10, PD-105/125, 13" DIY + BT-1, VH-11/CY14/15/5, PM-30, HD-280 Pro

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    • #3
      Unfortunately I have next to no experience with acoustic drums (got e-kit about a year ago, only been on an acoustic kit a few times and it was a friend's whose hi-hat didn't open and close correctly...some missing critical piece). I would THINK you could set up a real pedal to have at least two inches of movement between fully open and closed.

      I guess my reasoning for this whole thing is that sometimes you don't simply want it half open...you want DEGREES of openness...maybe just a little sometimes, so it sizzles ever so slightly more than fully closed. I find that if I get that slight sizzle with my current setup, it's extremely hard to maintain...an involuntary twitch of my foot during a hit triggers one of the more closed or more open samples. I mean, perhaps that is how a "real" hi hat operates but I would think real thing is a little more forgiving. WAtching youtube videos on drum instruction where you can see the feet, often the hi hat foot will move ever so slightly, I'm guessing involuntarily, but the hat sound doesn't change.

      Anyway, doesn't appear to be anyway to tweak the module for more desirable results, and Superior Drummer has various presets to spread the samples out differently, which is nice, but I'm still limited by movement range of the pedal itself where the sensor is active. I can watch the various stages of openness in Superior Drummer as the pedal goes through them (you can actually see where it is in the "openness range" on the pedal settings tab), and it doesn't change from fully open to the next one down 'til the pedal is pressed down quite a bit.
      Last edited by TheBass; 02-19-20, 01:54 AM.

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      • #4
        On an acoustic hi hat mine opens by about 1 inch and all the variations are in the very first part of opening. Unless you have the bottom hi hat on real ones at a steep angle as some people do then that’s how they work. All the sound change is in really small movements so for me that is exactly how I want my ekit hi hats to react.
        Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

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        • #5
          Fair enough. I guess I assumed it would have more movement to it like a kick pedal (typically) does (my kit uses a real kick pedal). I guess I just go to Guitar Center and play on an acoustic kit and see if I like fhe feel and it's worth it to me to spend money on a hi hat stand and goedrum trigger or VH 10/11, since that's probably the only way I'll get close to what I (think) I'm after.

          Actually I just reread and saw that you said your hat opens an inch...but how much does the pedal itself move? Or is it a 1:1 correlation?

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          • #6
            Of course it's 1:1, since it's nothing but a rod.
            But the thing is, the transition between closed and open can easily be enlarged on an a-kit by tilting the bottom hat (that's what mkok was saying). Angling the bottom has two goals: a) closing the HH all of a sudden (chick) would otherwise be slightly muted because the air needs to escape, and b) an angle enlarges the transition. The latter is what makes an acoustic HH pair 'rattle' more half-way. Makes much of a sense with rock beats, for instance. The angle is adjusted by turning a screw on the underside which resides off-center, and that lifts up the bottom cymbal a bit.
            On my a-kit, I have the HH bottom angled at ~10, which might give me some 1.5 - 2cm transition, perhaps. My e-HH is set up in a very similar way, travel-wise.

            Check this out:
            Last edited by sascha; 02-19-20, 07:44 AM.
            gear: MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3, Goedrum HH controller), Triggera 10" splash
            band: http://theboardmusic.com

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            • #7
              Gotcha. That's cool but unfortunately on this kit the hi hat is only one piece/cymbal; it's the same pad as the other cymbals. Guess I just need to learn to suck less for now.

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              • #8
                With an acoustic hi hat you learn to feel it so the movements are really small. Most of my movements are 1 inch and below and yes 1 to 1 the pedal barely moves. The trouble is the fd7 will always have a full range movement but I would probably have my foot resting on it. It could also be a problem with rubber going hard so making it hard to push down. There is a thread somewhere on repairing this.
                Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks. I think the FD7 is working fine (though no frame of reference to compare to so who knows). Closed is easy (I recently tweaked it so my foot/the slope is higher for fully closed, so I don't have to press down as hard/consciously), open is easy. It's getting the precision in between that's troublesome. SOME stage of half openness is not very difficult, it's being able to easily, intentionally hit the barely open or the mostly open stages without accidentally randomly closing or opening more than I want.

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