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TD10 kit issue going thru PA

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  • TD10 kit issue going thru PA

    Hope this is the right thread for this but I'm not very "technical"! Put my TD10 kit away over a year ago after leaving my band. Went to audition with a new band yesterday and when I plugged my kit into their PA, it sounded like crap. No depth or volume and it just sounded like only reverb was coming thru. Weirdest part is there was a definate delay after a trigger was hit and the sound came out. Enough delay that it would have been impossible to play a tune. Stranger still, they sound absolutely perfect when just going thru my headphones. In my last band the sound guy had my kit set up with 4 or 5 sends so he could control each group on his board. After leaving the band I reloaded the kit off my card and thought everything was back to normal and they worked fine practicing thru my headphones. But when I hooked the line out to a PA, trash came out. Anyone have any idea where to start? Thanks you!

  • #2
    Which output(s) did you connect from the TD-10 module to the PA mixer?

    It sounds like perhaps you connected both Left and Right Master outputs, which can cancel each other so that you only hear ambience through a mono PA.

    For a live situation, unless there's a requirement for stereo (unlikely), you should connect only the Left/Mono output which sends both left and right sounds as mono.

    To get Mono from the Left output, it's important that you don't connect any cable to the Right output (even if it's not connected to anything at the other end.)

    If the module was previously set up for Direct outputs, but now using Master output, check trigger to output assignments at Control Room, Mixer, Output (revert to M).
    Last edited by BarT; 01-13-19, 06:07 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BarT View Post
      It sounds like perhaps you connected both Left and Right Master outputs, which can cancel each other so that you only hear ambience through a mono PA.
      I've never had this kind of canceling from any module, and I use both outputs regulary. Anyhow, it seems like you have only ambience routed to the master outs, just switch all 'instruments' from direct outs back to LR. Loading individual kits doesn't change the routing so you have to do it manually or load the whole module backup if you have one. If everything fails, you can do a factory reset and try loading the kits again.
      •A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•
      •Roland TD-12 brain, SPD-SX, Roland RT triggers•
      •Ship kits: TD-12KV, TD-30K, TD-50K•

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MilosDrummer View Post
        I've never had this kind of canceling from any module, and I use both outputs regularly.
        Connecting both Left and Right to a single mono amplifier like a typical PA system?

        What is "Phase Cancellation"? | Sweetwater

        Another common artifact of out-of-phase stereo mixes is where signals panned to the center disappear, while sounds panned hard to one side remain.
        UNDERSTANDING AUDIO PHASE
        Out Of Phase Stereo

        This is mostly a problem when your music is played on mono systems like big PA sound systems
        How To Fix Phase Cancellation
        Can even happen with a mono radio listening to a stereo signal:
        Left and Right Signals Cancelling Each Other Out

        I could be wrong in this case though. It's probably just triggers still assigned to direct outputs instead of master L/R as we've both said.

        Comment


        • #5
          Ya, I'm quite familiar with phase canceling, just saying that in all these years and countless different systems used with various modules, I've never had an issue like that. Not saying it cannot happen, it's just unlikely. I guess to get in that spot, one has to use a 2Xmono/mono cable or to run the mixer to a single channel or bridged amp?
          •A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•
          •Roland TD-12 brain, SPD-SX, Roland RT triggers•
          •Ship kits: TD-12KV, TD-30K, TD-50K•

          Comment


          • #6
            don't take on BarT, milos ? he's Juggernaut and you are deadpool ..
            | Diy Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

            Comment


            • #7
              Um, I think we derailed this thread enough... Not taking on anyone here, no worries
              •A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•
              •Roland TD-12 brain, SPD-SX, Roland RT triggers•
              •Ship kits: TD-12KV, TD-30K, TD-50K•

              Comment


              • #8
                I have a TD-9 V2 that I have always struggled with this exact issue, sounds great through headphones (especially with VEX ) but when I try to export the sound it sounds like a faint image of what comes through headphones.
                I went home last night after reading this post hoping to be able to "switch all 'instruments' from direct outs back to LR" however I was unable to figure out how to do this ...?? Only thing I could find was an ambient level adjustment for each instrument
                Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

                Cheers
                Romano
                TD-9 V2, Converted Acoustic kit with internal DIY triggers, triggered Sabian Quite tone cymbals

                Comment


                • #9
                  Since TD9 has no direct outs, you can't have that kind of issue. What do you mean by 'export the sound'? Btw, this is again off topic, it's about the TD10...
                  •A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•
                  •Roland TD-12 brain, SPD-SX, Roland RT triggers•
                  •Ship kits: TD-12KV, TD-30K, TD-50K•

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have the two 1/4" L and R "output" jacks plugged into a reasonably decent home stereo ..... and the OP's description closely mirrors my dilemma

                    " it sounded like crap. No depth or volume and it just sounded like only reverb was coming thru."
                    "Stranger still, they sound absolutely perfect when just going thru my headphones.
                    "

                    I have been assuming that I will need to pick up a proper monitor to be able to hear the drums without headphones ..?...but before I spend the money on a monitor I would like to rule out that there is not something I am missing with my settings. Been playing acoustic drums my whole life and am just recently in the learning curve with electronic drums, being relegated to headphone precludes the idea of playing with other musicians.
                    TD-9 V2, Converted Acoustic kit with internal DIY triggers, triggered Sabian Quite tone cymbals

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      imo -with any module- it's a good idea to make special 'amp' or 'pa' mixes of the drum kits.. just copy the kits you normally play to unused memory
                      spots (or overwrite that raggae kit) and next adjust EQ and ambience (+ reverb/ room) settings to the amp you are playing on.. then save..
                      (you might have to dial ambience to '0' for best sound) ..start out 'flat' .. all those kits sound different on your headphone or through an amp/ speaker..
                      | Diy Roland/Yamaha e-kit | Sonor/Gretsch a-kit | Zildjian/Sabian/Ufip cymbals

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Romano1 View Post
                        I have the two 1/4" L and R "output" jacks plugged into a reasonably decent home stereo ..... and the OP's description closely mirrors my dilemma

                        " it sounded like crap. No depth or volume and it just sounded like only reverb was coming thru."
                        "Stranger still, they sound absolutely perfect when just going thru my headphones.
                        .
                        Can't explain mbro223 delayed sounds issue, but the issue Romano1 sounds like a cabling issue:

                        These modules (at least the TD-9 and 30 I have) have TRS (Tip-Ring-Sleeve) outputs in a balanced configuration. That means that the L + R outputs are mono outputs but with the actual signal carried across Tip and Ring, and Sleeve is to be used to connect the cable's shielding (on one end). So these looks like stereo outputs, but are not to be used as such.

                        So if you use the wrong cable, you are then connecting what you could call the '+' of left and the '-' of right and the result is a mono sounding signal with cancelled out frequencies.

                        In my case to connect from the TD-9 to a PM-30 amp with two mono inputs, I connect not get to sound normally unless I used stereo cables to headphones to stereo input of the the PM-30.
                        To solve this I then used a pair of mono cables and soldered a stereo plug on one-end, and connect red to T, and shielding to sleeve of course. so the signal is only carried through the red strand, and on to PM-30 end then only use a mono plug. It baffled me that this was nowhere explained, and that it was quite unclear what kind of outputs these modules actually have. The TRS term set me on the wrong foot back then, as this lead me to think you need to use a stereo cable.

                        But just now I tested what would happen with two mono-mono cables connected between L and R, or with two stereo-stereo cables between my TD-30 and PM30 and both work fine (!), which now makes me wonder what my issue was with the TD-9, or whether that is specific to the TD-9.

                        Sorry for this vague answer, moral of the story: check your cabling!

                        E-kit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rz173edtgc...14709.jpg?raw=1
                        A-kit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vxkwbj1rv7...345-1.jpg?raw=1
                        TD-30, KT10, PD-105/125, 13" DIY + BT-1, VH-11/CY14/15/5, PM-30, HD-280 Pro

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by djska View Post

                          These modules (at least the TD-9 and 30 I have) have TRS (Tip-Ring-Sleeve) outputs in a balanced configuration.
                          As far as I know, the only TD to have balanced outs is the 50.
                          •A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•
                          •Roland TD-12 brain, SPD-SX, Roland RT triggers•
                          •Ship kits: TD-12KV, TD-30K, TD-50K•

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes that one has XLR, but TRS plugs can also be used in a balanced configuration.
                            E-kit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rz173edtgc...14709.jpg?raw=1
                            A-kit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vxkwbj1rv7...345-1.jpg?raw=1
                            TD-30, KT10, PD-105/125, 13" DIY + BT-1, VH-11/CY14/15/5, PM-30, HD-280 Pro

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No, I'm saying that the modules don't have balanced outputs. They should all be connected with mono (TS) jacks.
                              •A kits: Mapex Saturn ltd. Mapex Meridian, Ludwig and Pearl snares, Paiste, Anatolian, DW5002TW•
                              •Roland TD-12 brain, SPD-SX, Roland RT triggers•
                              •Ship kits: TD-12KV, TD-30K, TD-50K•

                              Comment

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