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  • TD-11 Edge/bow issue

    Hi everyone just a quick triggering question, I noticed on the td-11 (my issue is with the cymbals) when I just slightly tap the cymbals on the EDGE, the BOW registers instead, until I tap a bit harder then finally the edge triggers, seems to be under a certain velocity, the BOW triggers on the EDGE, but i'd like the EDGE to trigger at all times when im playing the edge, is there any way to change this?

  • #2
    What cymbals are you using? Have you checked that the pad settings are correct?

    I had no problems with my Roland cymbals but the sensitivity of my diy cymbals is very different and requires fiddling to change cross talk between zones.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by STATISDRUMS View Post
      Hi everyone just a quick triggering question, I noticed on the td-11 (my issue is with the cymbals) when I just slightly tap the cymbals on the EDGE, the BOW registers instead, until I tap a bit harder then finally the edge triggers, seems to be under a certain velocity, the BOW triggers on the EDGE, but i'd like the EDGE to trigger at all times when im playing the edge, is there any way to change this?
      I don't know if you know, but there is a switch along the edge and you have to tap hard enough to close that switch for the edge to be recognized. The piezo in the bow is what registers velocity and the module checks to see if the switch was activated to decide whether or not to play bow or edge sounds.

      Now, it's possible there could be some debris or something causing the edge switch to be harder to close.

      Regardless, at some light velocity the edge switch will not close and you'll get light bow sounds instead.

      ---- Edit to add ----

      If you want the Edge sound always, then you'll have to give up the Bow sound and assign an Edge sound to the Bow (if that's possible in the TD-11 module.)
      Last edited by billgtx; 11-30-18, 11:47 AM. Reason: Answer actual question.
      ATV aD5, TD-25KV cymbals, Mapex Horizon Blue Sparkle shells A2E w/Triggera InTriggs.Yamaha DXR15, MG10. Senn 280HD.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by billgtx View Post

        I don't know if you know, but there is a switch along the edge and you have to tap hard enough to close that switch for the edge to be recognized. The piezo in the bow is what registers velocity and the module checks to see if the switch was activated to decide whether or not to play bow or edge sounds.

        Now, it's possible there could be some debris or something causing the edge switch to be harder to close.

        Regardless, at some light velocity the edge switch will not close and you'll get light bow sounds instead.

        ---- Edit to add ----

        If you want the Edge sound always, then you'll have to give up the Bow sound and assign an Edge sound to the Bow (if that's possible in the TD-11 module.)
        i split one of my roland cy12c cymbals with a cy5 and made the cy5 the bow, problem is when I'm doing cymbal swells on the cy12c, I hear the bow at low velocity (which is the cy5 as a splash) not a HUGE deal, just thought there was a way to fix this

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        • #5
          I've given this question some more thought and I have some more suggestions. Hopefully something here will help you get closer to what you want.

          First of all, we're limited by the design of the Roland cymbal with an edge switch and the inherent physics - you need enough force to close the switch. This can't easily be changed.

          But there are some things we can do to compensate or work around this design.

          While experimenting I noticed attack angle matters. In normal playing I probably hit my cymbals at around a 45 degree angle. But if I lower that angle I find it doesn't take as much force to close the edge switch. Try playing at a very shallow angle. Almost like laying the stick on the surface of the cymbal.

          Speaking of force. F=MA. If you play with the tip of the stick try flipping the stick over and play with the heavy end if you need a light cymbal strike or roll. There's more mass M so you'll need less A.

          Another suggestion. If you imagine the cymbal as a clock face and the Roland logo is at 12, then the bow piezo is at 6. The further away from 6 you play you can still hit hard enough to close the edge switch but get less volume from the piezo. Try playing around 3-4 or 8-9 on the cymbal.

          Lastly, if you have a particular song that calls for light edge cymbal work, clone your kit and reduce the volume of that cymbal in the mixer. Then switch between kits as needed.

          These are all just work arounds but the fact remains is that to get the edge sound the switch has to close.

          Hopefully one (or more) of these suggestions will work for you or give you other ideas to try.

          ATV aD5, TD-25KV cymbals, Mapex Horizon Blue Sparkle shells A2E w/Triggera InTriggs.Yamaha DXR15, MG10. Senn 280HD.

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          • #6
            For me the solution was pretty simple .... I generally just need the normal Crash Edge sound anyway ... for crashing and crescendos, etc .... I just change the Bow sound to be the same as Edge ... works great that way. Plus on modules that have the interval feature for the edge it works for the edge sound assigned to the bow also .... so you get great crescendos that way. I can understand when you do want to use the Bow sound though ... that is pretty simple .... Just assign the Edge sound onto the Bow for one or two kits and leave the others default ... I would normally have a kit or 2 that were basically my Crescendo Kits ... others just default ... that was my method when using Roland modules at least. J
            I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
            Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

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            • #7
              Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
              For me the solution was pretty simple .... I generally just need the normal Crash Edge sound anyway ... for crashing and crescendos, etc .... I just change the Bow sound to be the same as Edge ... works great that way. Plus on modules that have the interval feature for the edge it works for the edge sound assigned to the bow also .... so you get great crescendos that way. I can understand when you do want to use the Bow sound though ... that is pretty simple .... Just assign the Edge sound onto the Bow for one or two kits and leave the others default ... I would normally have a kit or 2 that were basically my Crescendo Kits ... others just default ... that was my method when using Roland modules at least. J
              Thats what I do but the problem is, I split the signal from the c12 and im sharing it with a c5. The c12 is assigned to the edge and is a cymbal, and the c5 is assigned to the bow and is a splash cymbal, but when I hit the 12 very softly, the bow triggers instead of the edge

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              • #8
                Originally posted by STATISDRUMS View Post

                Thats what I do but the problem is, I split the signal from the c12 and im sharing it with a c5. The c12 is assigned to the edge and is a cymbal, and the c5 is assigned to the bow and is a splash cymbal, but when I hit the 12 very softly, the bow triggers instead of the edge
                The nature of the edge switches is they take a certain amount of force to trigger, not as sensitive as the bow piezo and that is just the way it works. You would be better off splitting a tom input with one of the Special Piezo/Piezo type splitters. In that scenario both cymbals are triggered from their Bow piezo so they will not have the same issue. You do loose the choking though.
                I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
                Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
                  The nature of the edge switches is they take a certain amount of force to trigger, not as sensitive as the bow piezo and that is just the way it works. You would be better off splitting a tom input with one of the Special Piezo/Piezo type splitters. In that scenario both cymbals are triggered from their Bow piezo so they will not have the same issue. You do loose the choking though.
                  I was going to split with the tom but I created my own drums out of real shells and purchased mesh heads and single zone trigger mounts for the toms, the only dual zone piezo set up is my snare, So I guess im out of luck with the cymbal swells for the split cymbal

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by STATISDRUMS View Post

                    I was going to split with the tom but I created my own drums out of real shells and purchased mesh heads and single zone trigger mounts for the toms, the only dual zone piezo set up is my snare, So I guess im out of luck with the cymbal swells for the split cymbal
                    So, how many toms do you have, did you already split the tom inputs? Because if your toms are already single zone and you haven't split a tom input using one of these: http://www.drumsplitters.com/shop.html that is what they are for. Tom on the head side, cymbal on the edge side and you should be good to go.... the splitter only uses the Single Piezo for the Tom Head, and the Piezo of the Cy cymbal.
                    I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
                    Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JmanWord View Post

                      So, how many toms do you have, did you already split the tom inputs? Because if your toms are already single zone and you haven't split a tom input using one of these: http://www.drumsplitters.com/shop.html that is what they are for. Tom on the head side, cymbal on the edge side and you should be good to go.... the splitter only uses the Single Piezo for the Tom Head, and the Piezo of the Cy cymbal.
                      I split 2 cymbals, read above how I did it

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                      • #12
                        I think what Jman was suggesting was that you have single zone toms now but you have unused rim signals. The rim on a tom is also a piezo which makes it a great candidate to split off to a cymbal.

                        So instead of splitting a cymbal into 2 cymbals, split a tom into a tom and a cymbal. Then go into the module and assign the desired edge sound to the tom rim. Presto you will only get edge sound on your cymbal.
                        ATV aD5, TD-25KV cymbals, Mapex Horizon Blue Sparkle shells A2E w/Triggera InTriggs.Yamaha DXR15, MG10. Senn 280HD.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by billgtx View Post
                          I think what Jman was suggesting was that you have single zone toms now but you have unused rim signals. The rim on a tom is also a piezo which makes it a great candidate to split off to a cymbal.

                          So instead of splitting a cymbal into 2 cymbals, split a tom into a tom and a cymbal. Then go into the module and assign the desired edge sound to the tom rim. Presto you will only get edge sound on your cymbal.
                          Exactly
                          I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
                          Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

                          Comment

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