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ATV aD H-14 HiHat setup w mimic pro?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by MJB View Post
    I feel like I'm 90% there. I can play with trigger settings and technique to get a more consistent sound, but no matter what I do I can't get rid of the occasional inadvertent bow triggering when playing fast chicks. Sorry to be such a PITA...for some reason this one thing is a particularly steep learning curve for me, lol.
    i think you could be onto something right here, i also dont think is a ATV hardware issues, and thats because when i try to midi up with Superior drummer 3 via Mimic Pro and make chick sound i also get some different unwanted (semi open) sounds, and not just a clean chick.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by MJB View Post
      I feel like I'm 90% there. I can play with trigger settings and technique to get a more consistent sound, but no matter what I do I can't get rid of the occasional inadvertent bow triggering when playing fast chicks. Sorry to be such a PITA...for some reason this one thing is a particularly steep learning curve for me, lol.
      Sorry, but I'm not sure if my messages were clear.
      I tried to say that some ATV hihats do has problems (with mimic, can't say more) - and yours is clearly one of these affected.

      So, in my opinion, it is not reasonable to spend you time on it right now, the custom preset is in the works.
      And once it will be functional, I'll be glad to get some testers onboard to polish it to perfection.


      I mean, I see your frustration and I'd like to help, but it will take some time, sorry.
      Last edited by Mr.Boo; 12-05-19, 06:38 AM.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Mr.Boo View Post

        Sorry, but I'm not sure if my messages were clear.
        I tried to say that some ATV hihats do has problems (with mimic, can't say more) - and yours is clearly one of these affected.

        So, in my opinion, it is not reasonable to spend you time on it right now, the custom preset is in the works.
        And once it will be functional, I'll be glad to get some testers onboard to polish it to perfection.


        I mean, I see your frustration and I'd like to help, but it will take some time, sorry.
        Oh, I certainly don’t expect anything to happen quickly on that front, which is why I’m continuing to chip away at trying to set this up. The fact that it’s because not worked on at all, as a result of this thread, is pretty amazing.

        But maybe I’m a little confused about presets. My understanding is that they just sort of serve as a starting point with all of the various settings, sort of like the module’s bed guess of how your pad should be set. In which case, I suppose, any hi-hat preset could be used with any hi-hat, but would require different amounts of tweaking.

        But is there more going on behind the scenes? Could a preset address a potentially “buggy” behavior (for lack of a better word) such as inappropriate bow triggering? And if this isn’t a hardware or technique issue, wouldn’t everyone with this combination be experiencing the problem?

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        • #79
          Originally posted by MJB View Post

          Oh, I certainly don’t expect anything to happen quickly on that front, which is why I’m continuing to chip away at trying to set this up. The fact that it’s because not worked on at all, as a result of this thread, is pretty amazing.

          But maybe I’m a little confused about presets. My understanding is that they just sort of serve as a starting point with all of the various settings, sort of like the module’s bed guess of how your pad should be set. In which case, I suppose, any hi-hat preset could be used with any hi-hat, but would require different amounts of tweaking.

          But is there more going on behind the scenes? Could a preset address a potentially “buggy” behavior (for lack of a better word) such as inappropriate bow triggering? And if this isn’t a hardware or technique issue, wouldn’t everyone with this combination be experiencing the problem?
          it's not an exact yes or no answer.

          I'd say that there is indeed some collection of the "base triggering algorithms" available in mimic for every type of cymbal or drum trigger, like piezo+switch cymbals, or mesh head drum with center and rim piezo sensors and such. And then there is a variety of presets for particular drums of particular manufacturers exist that are based on these algorithms, and the difference is just settings.
          But for this ATV hihat - there will be an individual algorithm tailored for this particular instrument. Looks like it's worth the extra work as it's a popular companion to mimic pro and would definitely make customers more happy =)

          Usually, the hihat setup takes just a 1-2 minutes. You dial the right gain for your pad, ten you capture the top velocity for bow and edge.
          Then you do capture tight closed/open values and dial the yellow line with a knob playing some close open patterns and some chicks at the same time as moving the yellow line with a knob.
          An then you fine tune the splash sensitivity and such.

          It's porbably a little more complex procedure, but allows to dial the hihat more precisely, and allows ot dial a variety of different hihats available on the market.

          With vh13 or vh11 for example it really takes 1-2 minutes to dial.

          And the goal is to make the ATV hats the same.

          PS I have a few reports and photos, and it looks like there was a design update to ATV hihats at some point, thus probably earlier units worked better with mimic. But I believe we will address these issues.
          Last edited by Mr.Boo; 12-05-19, 09:55 AM.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Mr.Boo View Post
            PS I have a few reports and photos, and it looks like there was a design update to ATV hihats at some point, thus probably earlier units worked better with mimic. But I believe we will address these issues.
            Yeah, I noticed the clutch on mine had an additional metal washer that I didn't see on Chris K.'s photo.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Mr.Boo View Post
              Or you can assemble your DIY hihat with roland cymbal and cheap hihat controller.
              Check out this video
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJtu3dImXVU
              You probably already has a cymbal for it, and the controller is just about $60
              https://www.amazon.com/Goedrum-GHC-E.../dp/B00UBGYBTO
              In reading more and more about e-hi-hats, I came across this Goedrum controller, and I just now put 2 and 2 together and realized you had already mentioned it. It looks very comparable to a VH-10/11 controller, and seems to get good reviews. Can you confirm that it works with the Mimic? Some reviews mention that it only works with Roland modules, but I think they were older reviews.

              If it works, it might be at least a good interim solution. I was considering picking up a VH-10, maybe used, for the same purpose, but obviously $59 is much more affordable, plus I get to keep a great feeling 14" cymbal for the hats.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by MJB View Post

                In reading more and more about e-hi-hats, I came across this Goedrum controller, and I just now put 2 and 2 together and realized you had already mentioned it. It looks very comparable to a VH-10/11 controller, and seems to get good reviews. Can you confirm that it works with the Mimic? Some reviews mention that it only works with Roland modules, but I think they were older reviews.

                If it works, it might be at least a good interim solution. I was considering picking up a VH-10, maybe used, for the same purpose, but obviously $59 is much more affordable, plus I get to keep a great feeling 14" cymbal for the hats.
                As far as I see it's just a copy of vh11 sensor but made of plastic.
                But unfortunately I can't guarantee you that it would work better than ATV hat, sorry, as I just don't has one to try out.
                If you can wait a week or two till some beta version, then I'd not buy it.
                If you are searching for a cheaper ATV substitute (and selling ATV) - then it could be a nice option.
                Last edited by Mr.Boo; 12-05-19, 03:59 PM.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by MJB View Post

                  In reading more and more about e-hi-hats, I came across this Goedrum controller, and I just now put 2 and 2 together and realized you had already mentioned it. It looks very comparable to a VH-10/11 controller, and seems to get good reviews. Can you confirm that it works with the Mimic? Some reviews mention that it only works with Roland modules, but I think they were older reviews.

                  If it works, it might be at least a good interim solution. I was considering picking up a VH-10, maybe used, for the same purpose, but obviously $59 is much more affordable, plus I get to keep a great feeling 14" cymbal for the hats.
                  please check you personal messages inbox

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                  • #84
                    Just so the idea isn't left in the cold; there is a way to completely eliminate all these problems by getting a Roland FD-9. As long as you are happy to sacrifice a moving hat.
                    ◾Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾MegaDRUM ◾Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾Pearl THMP-1
                    PA Comparison Table

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                    • #85
                      Not sure if this can help, with DW5000 stand, do not set the hihat tension spring to full up tight, no more then 90 % under the "click" tension setting.

                      I have done deep testing with VH11 with v11v2 preset and DW5000 stand, the pedal tension is the key, if set at full top, on my dw5000 (when set at full top you notice click on the physical hardware setting) it create issue on close\open with chick pedal, it trigs lowest velocity open sound from the top physical hi-hat, setting dw5000 spring tension just under at 90% no issue ( under the click), it appears with very high pedal tension send more vibration to the metal hihat rod that touch the upper bow cymbal. Tested even worst case scenario with threshold 0 input gain 17 to full, no issue at all. I bring it back to input gain 12 and 10 threshold, no need more then this works perfect.

                      Result will vary from stand to stand physical construction. Pedal spring tension need to be set just to get nice up and down feel speed, too much low is not good, the hihat will barely get up and down with delayed result.


                      This was set as test near 70% higher pedal tension, but works on higher with my vh11 like 90% almost full, just not set it full top.

                      dw5000.jpg
                      Last edited by Chris K; 12-07-19, 07:49 PM.

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                      • #86
                        Well, I tried everything.

                        First, I received a beta version of the aD-H14 preset, which helped a little (at least for a little while). But then it stated again with false triggering foot splashes, and I got desperate. I ordered both an ATV aD5 and a Roland VH-10, forctesting, so that I could once and for all establish or rule out a hardware issue. (AWESOME customer service from Pearl/SSD, btw. I’ve NEVER received that kind of personalized support before).

                        To my surprise, I continued to have the same problem, with every combination of hi-hat and module that I tried. So I’m checked and rechecked the pedal spring tension, as well as all of the trigger settings (over, and over, and over...).

                        What FINALLY seems to have worked is to set the input gain low - very low (like 1 or 2). I can’t understand it, surely not everyone is doing this? Maybe it has something to do with my particular hi-hat stand, or playing style, or who knows what else?

                        Anyway, the aD5 and VH-10 are both on their way back to where they came from. Both are pretty good pieces of gear, but not quite up to the Mimic and aD-H14. I will say the ATV cymbals played wonderfully on the aD5 - I think the ATV module actually has the Mimic beat in that regard. They just sounded and felt so natural together. Maybe if the Mimic ever gets bow articulations in the crashes...as for the VH-10, I really liked the lightness and responsiveness, but the ATV’s larger playing area is obviously a huge plus. But to be honest, if it weren’t possible to play the ATV without the bottom hat, I would gladly settle for the smaller VH-10, that’s how big a problem I think the noise is on the ATVs. Fortunately, once you remove the bottom hat, the ATV and VH-10 are at about the same noise level. I know that single-cymbal hats aren’t as “cool” and aesthetically pleasing as a pair of hats, but they sure are more practical.
                        Last edited by MJB; 12-21-19, 01:51 AM.

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                        • #87
                          The problem then, is that the company that makes the trigger hardware can make the perfect algorithms to go with the module they also made.

                          The 3rd party Mimic Pro has to best guess with all triggers of all brands - inconsistencies as a result of making a universal trigger module, roughly speaking.

                          I hope ATV reaches out to support the Mimic Pro and find a fair solution, even though they don't have to. The ATV doesn't support a VH-13 does it? - This is the same argument if coming from the other side.

                          Or it's time to bust out an oscilloscope lol.
                          ◾Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾MegaDRUM ◾Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾Pearl THMP-1
                          PA Comparison Table

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by MJB View Post

                            To my surprise, I continued to have the same problem, with every combination of hi-hat and module that I tried. So I’m checked and rechecked the pedal spring tension, as well as all of the trigger settings (over, and over, and over...).

                            What FINALLY seems to have worked is to set the input gain low - very low (like 1 or 2). I can’t understand it, surely not everyone is doing this? Maybe it has something to do with my particular hi-hat stand, or playing style, or who knows what else?
                            Since you are getting the same issue with all module, where the hihat stand is? try over a carpet, it seem your hihat doing too much vibration to the top cymbal, and triggers open sound hihat at chick pedal.

                            I am using vh11 with mimic, dw5000 stand no issue at all, even input gain at 17 threshold 0, no open hihat sound at chick pedal, this issue happens only when I set at full max 100% high tension pedal, but no need, I set it just below.
                            Last edited by Chris K; 12-21-19, 03:04 PM.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Kabonfaiba View Post
                              The problem then, is that the company that makes the trigger hardware can make the perfect algorithms to go with the module they also made.

                              The 3rd party Mimic Pro has to best guess with all triggers of all brands - inconsistencies as a result of making a universal trigger module, roughly speaking.

                              I hope ATV reaches out to support the Mimic Pro and find a fair solution, even though they don't have to. The ATV doesn't support a VH-13 does it? - This is the same argument if coming from the other side.

                              Or it's time to bust out an oscilloscope lol.
                              Not sure if you read his message, he have the same problem with all module and hihat, not related to one.

                              For ATV hihat, real issue is with 2 atv hihat version on the market, older and newer, one reflector lower and one higher + 2 different clutch version. Optical is very sensible, optical lights is the same as water leak "precision", and those 2 atv hihat version make all variant algorithm confused.

                              Alex and Sergey are actually working with the newer atv hihat version to fix it, but will require time to made new preset finalized.
                              Last edited by Chris K; 12-21-19, 02:57 PM.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Kabonfaiba View Post
                                The problem then, is that the company that makes the trigger hardware can make the perfect algorithms to go with the module they also made.

                                The 3rd party Mimic Pro has to best guess with all triggers of all brands - inconsistencies as a result of making a universal trigger module, roughly speaking.

                                I hope ATV reaches out to support the Mimic Pro and find a fair solution, even though they don't have to. The ATV doesn't support a VH-13 does it? - This is the same argument if coming from the other side.

                                Or it's time to bust out an oscilloscope lol.
                                I'm not sure if you read the whole message


                                Originally posted by MJB View Post
                                Well, I tried everything.

                                ............
                                I ordered both an ATV aD5
                                ............
                                To my surprise, I continued to have the same problem, with every combination of hi-hat and module that I tried. So I’m checked and rechecked the pedal spring tension, as well as all of the trigger settings (over, and over, and over...).

                                What FINALLY seems to have worked is to set the input gain low - very low (like 1 or 2). I can’t understand it, surely not everyone is doing this? Maybe it has something to do with my particular hi-hat stand, or playing style, or who knows what else?
                                PS I would definitely fix all problems, but unfortunately I lost contact with MJB
                                Last edited by Mr.Boo; 12-21-19, 02:44 PM.

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