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TD-25KV x-stick (cross-stick) function

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  • TD-25KV x-stick (cross-stick) function

    Ok, so call me stupid but I've been over both the owners manual and that parameters manual for my td-25kv and although I have found where it says that only certain snare drum patches have that xstick function I still have not found out how to enable it. Or is it just always there for that particular sound and I'm trying to play too hard? In which case it would be an xstick threshold adjustment that I would need to make.

    Anyone figure this out yet? Any help would be appreciated..

    Sorry for posting in the wrong section. Thank you mod for moving this.
    Last edited by 2112guy; 05-31-15, 05:18 PM.
    TD-12S-BK, CY-15, Simmons SDS-1 pad, Iron Cobra HP900TWL Pedals, Simmons DA200S

  • #2
    It is always on, but for only certain patches. Try the Jazz Session kit.

    As for the xstick threshold, yes this a trigger setting that you may need to adjust. It adjusts the playing strength at which to switch between cross stick and rim shot. Setting this to a higher value makes it easier to get cross stick sounds. When set to 0, playing a cross stick produces the open rim shot sound.

    -SD-

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    • #3
      Ok. I'll have to mess with that then. I looked at the snare for the Maple Custom kit (which is one of the xstick snares) and couldn't get it to trigger. I will check out the jazz session kit and the setting on the other kits. Thank you Silicon Drummer.
      TD-12S-BK, CY-15, Simmons SDS-1 pad, Iron Cobra HP900TWL Pedals, Simmons DA200S

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      • #4
        After some looking through the instruments in the module I now understand how this works. (Yes, I'm not the quickest person sometimes) There are actually two snare patches for a bunch of the snares. One patch has the "x" after the name and if you use that patch instead of the other one (of the same name but without the "x") you automatically get the xstick sound. Problem solved. I think this could be explained a little better in one of the manuals. Just my opinion though.
        TD-12S-BK, CY-15, Simmons SDS-1 pad, Iron Cobra HP900TWL Pedals, Simmons DA200S

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 2112guy View Post
          There are actually two snare patches for a bunch of the snares. One patch has the "x" after the name and if you use that patch instead of the other one (of the same name but without the "x") you automatically get the xstick sound.
          Yes, that is correct. But, I though you already new this because in your original post you said:
          Originally posted by 2112guy View Post
          ...I have found where it says that only certain snare drum patches have that xstick function
          Anyway, glad you figured it out. It is the same way on all Roland modules. I guess you could say that it is a bit more confusing on the TD-25 because, unlike all previous Roland modules, you cannot assign the rim instrument independently from the head instrument. So, since they "pair" all instruments in head/rim pairs, they put the X in the name of the head instrument to differentiate which one is paired with the cross stick rim instrument.

          -SD-

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          • #6
            Anyway, glad you figured it out. It is the same way on all Roland modules.
            This isn't quite true. On the TD-20 and TD-30 modules, in addition to other parameters affecting cross-stick and rim sounds, there is an explicit X-Stick on/off setting. One can enable or disable switching between cross-stick and rims sounds, and one can lock either sound so there is never any chance of getting the wrong sound.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TangTheHump View Post
              This isn't quite true. On the TD-20 and TD-30 modules, in addition to other parameters affecting cross-stick and rim sounds, there is an explicit X-Stick on/off setting.
              same on the TD-11 & 15

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              • #8
                That is what I was used to. I was looking for some way to just switch it on or off like the older modules. Obviously that's not the case on the TD-25. That's what I was thinking when I found the part of the manual that stated only certain patches had the x-stick function. Thinking there was some way to switch it on/off, I thought my module was messed up or needed the update to enable it. It makes sense now but Roland really should have explained the whole thing better in the manual.
                TD-12S-BK, CY-15, Simmons SDS-1 pad, Iron Cobra HP900TWL Pedals, Simmons DA200S

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                • #9
                  2112guy,

                  I don't think this is your misinterpretation. As with other missing features in the TD-25, this looks like another botched "simplifying" attempt on Roland's part. Whether the instruments have an "X" in the name or not, as in other Roland modules, I'd want the ability to toggle the X-Stick function on and off with a button or footswitch. To the best of my knowledge, there is no way (in any Roland module) to change an instrument assignment in real time, while playing. Thus, the omission of the X-Stick on/off function is just that... an actual omission that once again removes standard features from the module. I'll add this to my other post on missing features in the TD-25.

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                  • #10
                    2112guy,

                    You can find my thread on TD-25 missing features below. I added your issue as item 9.0.

                    TD-25 Missing Features
                    http://www.vdrums.com/forum/general/...ssing-features

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TangTheHump View Post
                      This isn't quite true. On the TD-20 and TD-30 modules, in addition to other parameters affecting cross-stick and rim sounds, there is an explicit X-Stick on/off setting...
                      Not sure if you misunderstood me, or if you purposely chose to misquote me by only quoting one phrase out of context. I am going to assume that you just misunderstood me and I'll clarify, so as not to confuse others.

                      I was only responding to the last post in this thread because we were the only two people participating in this dialogue up to that point. We already discussed this x-stick switch in previous posts and I already told the OP that the TD-25 doesn't have one. So, I didn't feel any need to rehash what we already discussed. All I was trying to say is that all Roland modules, that support both a rim-shot sound AND a x-stick sound on the snare rim, do so by having special rim instruments with X in the name. This is a standard Roland naming convention. The only difference on the TD-25 is that they put the X on the name of a "PAIR" of instruments, since the TD-25 only allows you to select head and rim pairs. I know this is a compromise, but looking on the bright side, it does prevent people from putting the X rim instrument on the snare head -- yes this used to be a common mistake that was responsible for generating more than a few "Help!" threads on this forum.

                      Anyway, to make a long story short... Yes, there are other functions that support snare rim sounds, but that varies from module to module. The only thing in common is the "X" naming convention.

                      Originally posted by TangTheHump View Post
                      ...One can enable or disable switching between cross-stick and rims sounds, and one can lock either sound so there is never any chance of getting the wrong sound.
                      This isn't quite true. -- Sorry, I couldn't resist
                      Anyway, how do you stop the rim-shot sound from triggering when you only want a x-stick? The only ways that I have found to do this are (1) with the trigger settings which are global to all kits, or (2) assigning a x-stick only sound to the rim -- not one of the "X" rim instruments. Is there a "Rim-Shot" switch that I have missed that allows you to disable the "Rim-Shot" sound in similar fashion to the way that the X-Stick switch allows you to turn off the X-Stick sound?
                      Last edited by SiliconDrummer; 06-06-15, 02:07 PM.

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                      • #12
                        SiliconDrummer,

                        Not sure if you misunderstood me, or if you purposely chose to misquote me by only quoting one phrase out of context. I am going to assume that you just misunderstood me and I'll clarify, so as not to confuse others.
                        Misunderstood. Sorry. I didn't see your post with the details. I shortened the quote simply for brevity. No intent to misquote you.

                        This isn't quite true. -- Sorry, I couldn't resist.
                        *laughs!* :-)

                        Anyway, how do you stop the rim-shot sound from triggering when you only want a x-stick? The only ways that I have found to do this are (1) with the trigger settings which are global to all kits, or (2) assigning a x-stick only sound to the rim -- not one of the "X" rim instruments. Is there a "Rim-Shot" switch that I have missed that allows you to disable the "Rim-Shot" sound in similar fashion to the way that the X-Stick switch allows you to turn off the X-Stick sound?
                        I'll have to test this. I know that when X-Stick is enabled, past a certain threshold, a rim shot sound occurs instead of the cross stick. However, on certain kits, the cross stick occurs all the time, no matter how hard you hit. I'd always assumed this was a variation of the X-Stick button behavior and that somewhere else there was a parameter affecting this. However, now, given your description, it may well be that an actual cross stick instrument is assigned and thus there is no way to switch between the two. On the flagship modules, I suppose one could kludge this by creating two identical kits with the exception of the instrument assigned to the snare rim. Toggle between the two kits by using a dual footswitch.

                        Once again, sorry for the misunderstanding. In regard to this discussion, I'll take another look in the TD-30 to see if there's anything I missed.

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                        • #13
                          There is an easy way to switch between X-Stick and standard rimshot on the snare of the TD-25 though, it's a workaround but it's 100% functional everytime you need it : simply copy your entire kit to the next slot and apply the snare rim variation there. Now you've got 2 adjacent kits, one with and one without X-Stick, and you can toggle between the 2 kits like if you were switching modes (you can toggle back and forth on the TD-25 wheel right? If not you need to figure it out, plan one entire series with and without so that you can toggle each time...)

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                          • #14
                            A foot switch input would have been very useful for that trick.
                            "It makes sense if you dont think about it"

                            Mimic Pro, SPD-SX, 2-QSC K-10s, K-sub, Yamaha mixer, and a bunch of other expensive cool things!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Intruder View Post
                              A foot switch input would have been very useful for that trick.
                              Roland has separated their modules into two very distinct halves: TD-30 and everything else. If you need any kind of input flexibility, I/O flexibility, or real time switching capabilities, you must go to the TD-30. For example, to the best of my knowledge, none of the other modules provides a footswitch input. And, similarly, by way of MIDI controller mapping, I don't think any of Roland's modules provide much in the way of mapping functions to a MIDI generic controller device, though it may be that I've simply not seen this.

                              Focusing on the TD-30, given how many things there are to toggle in real time, I'm surprised there is only a single, dual footswitch input. One can set up trigger inputs (i.e. pads and cymbals) to act as function toggles, but now you're wasting inputs. In the next Roland flagship module, it would be nice to see at least three dual footswitch inputs (one for switching patches or patch chains up and down, one for toggling the X-Stick and Snare Wire functions, and one for toggling other features, such as starting and stopping the sequencer, putting the sequencer into record, etc.

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