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DTX502 Snare mutes when hitting other pads

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  • DTX502 Snare mutes when hitting other pads

    I recently set up a DTX502 module and an XP100 snare pad along with my old Roland PD8 and CY8 pads. When playing softly (under 20% velocity), if I simultaneously hit the snare and any other pad, only one of them triggers a sound. At velocity above 20%, both pads will play a sound. I've read through the manual and tried various things in the settings. I reduced the crosstalk setting to 0 for all pads and it didn't help.

    I'm not sure if its an issue with using Roland pads with the Yamaha module. The only improvement I noticed was increasing the gain on the pads so that softer hits register above 20% velocity, but then the kit sounds too loud and unresponsive for lighter playing.

  • #2
    Very wierd. I don't see that as crosstalk as that would appear at higher velocities and from what I'm guessing these 3 pads are physically apart. The gain just boosts the signal but, as you say, makes it unplayable.
    I've got nothing I'm afraid.

    Comment


    • #3
      Make sure that your inputs do not share the same MIDI note. Maybe try changing your snare MIDI note and see if it still happens.
      DTX700, eDRUMin 4+10, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
      Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

      My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the replies. It does seem like a strange problem. I tried changing the snare MIDI but it didn't improve. I played around with it more and discovered a couple things.

        If I softly hit a non-snare pad and hit the snare immediately after (almost at the same time), then the snare won't trigger. But if I hit the snare first and another pad after in the same way, both will trigger. And other pads work fine together, such as two toms. The problem only seems to occur when the snare is the second pad hit immediately after hitting any other pad on the kit, and under 20% velocity. I tried changing the cable and it was the same. I also plugged a PD8 into the snare input instead of the XP100 and it behaved the same way.

        I might try a factory reset on the module next, but any other ideas are much appreciated.

        Comment


        • #5
          Maybe retrigger. I'm not familiar with the yamaha set up but it maybe something along those lines.

          Comment


          • #6
            Did you buy the module second hand and didn't do a factory reset?

            If that's so, yes please... do a factory reset and things might improve.
            DTX700, eDRUMin 4+10, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
            Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

            My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Fellow DTX502 user here. Also have the XP100SD like you. Also mix and match brands like you.

              I've experienced much the same thing you are describing albeit with different, non-Roland brand pads on the DTX502. I putzed around with all kinds of settings and wish I could give you a definitive fix...but I can't. It appears what we're dealing with is something called "crosstalk rejection" which is when you strike two pads simultaneously but only one registers. Yeah, we can tweak the settings so that this occurs as you've replicated it, ie., "immediately after" but the underlying cause is the same.

              This is something that's strictly peculiar to the circuitry of the 502 (and maybe other Yammie modules, I dunno) when faced with a non-Yammie pad. You're talking about this with a CY8 and PD8 and yeah, I had that issue with CY-14s but I also have it with new Simmons tom pads hooked up as toms and get much the same results when dealing with the snare and tom hits.

              I first tested this theory by using Yamaha XP70 pads for the toms (I had them for review for digitalDrummer Mag but returned them) and had no problems. I would then put on the non-Roland tom pads and had to tweak the hell outta things to minimize (but not eliminate) the problem. Part of my tweaking was going to page 68 of the manual and assigning different pad types to the non-Roland pad and see which one worked the best. As you've discovered, MIDI configuration doesn't affect this and as I've found out, retrigger (as suggested) doesn't do anything either.

              I then did the same thing with cymbals and had even less success in "dialing out" the issue.

              I think where you are now with the below 20% strike threshold is probably as good as you'll get. Currently my DTX502 kit isn't setup but I can fire up the module and at least review the settings for my toms and see if there's anything there that might help. As for cymbals, my fix was to get actual Yamaha cymbals. That should be a no-brainer for you since life with a CY-8 is not a life worth living.

              www.digitaldrummermag.com
              www.dauphinehotel.com
              TD-12, DTX502, SD1000, EZDrummer, Diamond Drum 12" snare, S1000 toms/cymbals/kick, PCY10/100/135/155, CY-5/14, Hart Ride, Hart Acupad 8" kick, Epedal Pro II, Concept 1 pads/cymbals, SD1000 & Roland V Sessions racks, PD-7, Kit Toy 10" splash, DMPad ride, SamplePad, PerformancePad Pro

              Comment


              • #8
                Wow,

                that's news to me, but good info nevertheless.

                I have a DTX700, and the only Yammie pads are 3 PCY135 and one PCY155. The rest is populated with DIY toms and snare, XM, and Presence cymbals.
                I have not had the crosstalk issue where one pad would silence another (although I am having trouble with input 11 triggering Tom 1).

                I was hoping to add a TCS snare pad at some point.
                DTX700, eDRUMin 4+10, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
                Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

                My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by perceval View Post
                  Wow,

                  that's news to me, but good info nevertheless.

                  I have a DTX700, and the only Yammie pads are 3 PCY135 and one PCY155. The rest is populated with DIY toms and snare, XM, and Presence cymbals.
                  I have not had the crosstalk issue where one pad would silence another (although I am having trouble with input 11 triggering Tom 1).

                  I was hoping to add a TCS snare pad at some point.
                  I hope it's ok to ask this here as it is a little off topic and maybe I should have started a new post, but since you mentioned the tcs snare, I figured I would ask.
                  I just ordered a new Yamaha DTX502 module to replace my dtx2.0. I got 17% off the standard price and I see the dtx 2.0 going for around $100 so I figured I would check it out.

                  I'm only using the dtx pads right now but want to convert them. I have a 13" piccolo snare that I was going to use. My question is, do you think the piccolo will give the same dynamics as the tcs snare?

                  Also, now I'm thinking of the triggering issue mentioned here? Might there be less of an issue using the tcs pad?

                  The only real issue I have with the tcs snare is I wish it was bigger than 12".
                  Yamaha DTX502 module, mapex piccolo snare, 10" and 12" vintage Tama Superstar toms, 16" no name blue sparkle floor tom (from my first kit in 1979 resurrected from the attic) Triggera Intriggs on snare and two mounted toms, Roland RT-10 on floor tom, two Kriggs, Yamaha RH135, pcy135, and pcy155

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If done right, your DIY piccolo snare will have great dynamics as well, just not 3 zones like a Yamaha pad. It will be single zone.

                    The workaround is to use a tom input for the snare, this way it can be piezo-piezo, giving you 2 zones, head and rim.

                    Or...

                    Make your own switch for a second zone on the snare input.
                    DTX700, eDRUMin 4+10, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH
                    Kit Pix http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=613

                    My new venture, HiEnd Speakers. : voglosounds.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I pulled out my 502 over the weekend, hooked up some pads and checked settings.

                      The only thing I tweaked on the toms was setting the pad type (page 68) where I list set them as TP70S/70 and Crosstalk (40). Damn, I can't remember what I set the snare for Crosstalk.

                      Crosstalk is the only thing on the pads that's not factory set. If you look at the note on page 70 about setting Crosstalk it says that "Although higher setting values are more effective in preventing crosstalk, they can also make it difficult to play softly on multiple pads at the same time."

                      That sums up my experience and I think your experience. Originally I had a lot of high settings on a lot of pads because I was having all kinds of trouble with practically everything, mainly because "practically everything" was *not* a Yamaha pad. It seems that at least with the 502, you put in a lot of non-Yammie pads and crosstalk becomes a real issue. I was getting snare sounds from practically everything I hit that wasn't a snare, so I cranked up the Crosstalk values and then started to get the problem you describe.

                      Again, I'm not entirely sure this is *the* variable to tweak and even if it is, there might not be any setting that'll dial out everything. I know I reduced most of my problems by using Yammie cymbals.

                      www.digitaldrummermag.com
                      www.dauphinehotel.com
                      Last edited by grog; 12-09-14, 08:07 AM.
                      TD-12, DTX502, SD1000, EZDrummer, Diamond Drum 12" snare, S1000 toms/cymbals/kick, PCY10/100/135/155, CY-5/14, Hart Ride, Hart Acupad 8" kick, Epedal Pro II, Concept 1 pads/cymbals, SD1000 & Roland V Sessions racks, PD-7, Kit Toy 10" splash, DMPad ride, SamplePad, PerformancePad Pro

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by perceval View Post
                        If done right, your DIY piccolo snare will have great dynamics as well, just not 3 zones like a Yamaha pad. It will be single zone.

                        The workaround is to use a tom input for the snare, this way it can be piezo-piezo, giving you 2 zones, head and rim.

                        Or...

                        Make your own switch for a second zone on the snare input.
                        Perceval,
                        Thanks, yes the plan was to use the Tom input, two zones will be fine. Now just need to order some mesh heads....
                        Yamaha DTX502 module, mapex piccolo snare, 10" and 12" vintage Tama Superstar toms, 16" no name blue sparkle floor tom (from my first kit in 1979 resurrected from the attic) Triggera Intriggs on snare and two mounted toms, Roland RT-10 on floor tom, two Kriggs, Yamaha RH135, pcy135, and pcy155

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks so much for your help grog. Actually I have had no issues at all with crosstalk, even with all pads set to 0. That's the first thing I tried, but unfortunately it seems like there is some built-in crosstalk rejection on the snare that you can't get rid of with any setting adjustment. I had a chance to test the 502 with all yamaha pads - XP80 toms and PCY100 and 135 cymbals. Also tried a factory reset. The problem is still there. I contacted Yamaha support but I don't have much hope for a solution.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Please keep us posted. When I had the entire 502 kit, I had XP70 pads for the toms and never experienced a problem. I can't imagine that the XP80s would be the reason for this. I wonder if it's something wrong with the module? I'm just flailing about now for possible reasons for this because if it's a design issue, it's significant.

                            www.digitaldrummermag.com
                            www.dauphinehotel.com
                            TD-12, DTX502, SD1000, EZDrummer, Diamond Drum 12" snare, S1000 toms/cymbals/kick, PCY10/100/135/155, CY-5/14, Hart Ride, Hart Acupad 8" kick, Epedal Pro II, Concept 1 pads/cymbals, SD1000 & Roland V Sessions racks, PD-7, Kit Toy 10" splash, DMPad ride, SamplePad, PerformancePad Pro

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm thinking of getting a DTX502 to add extra triggers to my TD-11 VST configuration. I can use the 502 as an extra MIDI IN device into my Mac by doing what's called an "aggregation".

                              So the real question I have related to this thread is: Has anyone solved the issue of using Roland pads on the 502 and overcoming the input cancellation at low volumes? I'm thinking of using the DTX for a couple of additional cymbals and maybe a BT-1 for a dedicated cross stick sound.

                              The basic related question is: if I have Roland triggers (pads and cymbals a BT-1) is getting a DTX a bad decision?
                              ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, eDRUMin 10, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

                              Comment

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