2box MIDI hi-hat

[kurth83]

Has anyone used a MIDI device to control a 2box, especially the hi-hat?

Basically want to upgrade my mini-kit's TD-9 module to a 2box module and am trying to identify workable
scenarios before I sink time and money into it, and the hats are the main issue with the 2box.

The scenarios I am thinking of include:
- an external MIDI controller like an Octopad, one pad devoted to the hat, and an HH (DIY) pedal connected directly to the 2box.
- alternatively I could connect a Roland FD-8 pedal to the octopad if the 2box can interpret Roland MIDI HH events,
this is the more "pure MIDI" solution, but I don't know if Roland MIDI can drive a 2box.

JMan's converter box might allow the creation of a DIY pedal for the first scenario, using an FD-8 or maybe a kick pedal to mount the magnet.

I also don't know about MIDI compatibility for Roland vs 2box Hat Pedal events, was hoping somebody here would know.

And I am assuming that MIDI for the rest of the drums (cymbals, toms, snare) would be fine.

[hairmetal-81]

Kurth,.

can't really help regarding MIDI-events...

But I would bypass the HH via midi usage (for possible latency reasons), and run a 'Converter-Box'-modded FD-7 or FD-8 straight into the 'HIHAT'-input on the back of the 2box-module itself!


HTH

[kurth83]

Yeah that's my preferred solution. I understand I can buy the extender, SD card, and converter from jman.

Just wondering if anyone has used a pedal for hi-hat control, and MIDI events for the hat hits.

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

Gutting an FD6/7/8 pedal and replacing it with the "box mod" to use by itself would work just fine if having a moving hat is not a priority. However you could still use this particular stand mod application like a lot of folks did with the FD-7s when for Roland modules that wanted moving hats. Frankly though...mounting the box mod directly to your favorite HH stand/remote will save you from having to gut/cut up the pedal and stand.

The hats are really a non issue once you get a good stand and them set up correctly...especially when using the box mod and your favorite type of cymbal pad that you are used to. They function every bit as well as the VH12/13 (and DIY versions of the these) did with their respective Roland modules...including the TD30....but the tones are much nicer.

[jpsquared482]

Hey Daniel, I'd like to know what "good stand" you're using and what type of "box mod" as well, so we followers don't have to reinvent the wheel?
Thanks!

[jpsquared482]

Hey Daniel, I'd like to know what "good stand" you're using and what type of "box mod" as well, so we followers don't have to reinvent the wheel?
Thanks!

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

There have been many "good stand" suggestions for these but I use a DW9502LB remote. Basically what you will need is a stand with a strong adjustable spring. As far as "box mods" go...I built my own from the 2Box hat pad. http://www.vdrums.com/forum/forum/ad...-hh-conversion

Jerry sells one that eliminates all the deconstruction and adds a nice feature for dialing in pads that could be "hotter" than the standard 2Box pads was.

[hairmetal-81]

I doubt that he will want to use a hihat-stand... (okay, to be fair, he could mount his Samplepad from there)

His setup is a Mini-Kit, that's all about being compact! Hence the frequent mentioning of the Alesis CP/Octapad.

http://www.vdrums.com/forum/forum/pe...-at-a-mini-kit



HTH

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

He'd have to use a static pad/cymbal at the very least for use with the modded FD pedal with the 2Box. The Sample pads won't do it which is why I'm sure he asked about the midi...and as you said...I too believe this would yield less than desirable results.

[hairmetal-81]

I was not precise enough, and my reply made everything just a little more confusing! Allow to rephrase:


- i think, he'll likely go the route of static pad/modded pedal. N-O hihat-stand!

- The Alesis Samplepad I did *not* bring into play for triggering the hihat-sound - just because he has one in his setup.

- I meant he could just (physically) mount the Samplepad off of a hihiat-stand
That's IF he would go with a stand (instead of just the controller-pedal). This might be a benefit of using a dedicated stand!

...although a slight one, and nowhere near as compact as the modded pedal/static pad solution.


Can you follow me, after I rephrased?
:wave:

[kurth83]

I just want a plain HH pedal like an FD-8, more than happy to cut one up to get there.
My HH is on the Control Pad like hairmetal said.

I don't need to buy the 2box HH stand right? Just buy Jman's converter box?

[JmanWord]

I just want a plain HH pedal like an FD-8, more than happy to cut one up to get there.
My HH is on the Control Pad like hairmetal said.

I don't need to buy the 2box HH stand right? Just buy Jman's converter box?

I read this thread and I don't think it would be possible to do what you are suggesting. The 2Box Hi Hat input is very different than Roland's or other brands (somewhat similar to DDrum because that is the original roots of 2Box really). The 2Box uses a single TRS HH input that has Bow and Edge zone for the HH cymbal plus the HH control function (and it even provides a few volts of power to the HH control board to power the hall sensor on the ring of the jack). With my 2Box HH conversion box/kit it basically splits it off so you can use a different e-Cymbal along with the controller on that TRS input. So you just need almost any type of e-Cymbal .... but your control pad does not have pads with individual outputs, so I don't see that working. You would still need a separate E-cymbal or pad IMO.

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

Yep....agreed. Although.....the box would be cool in a pedal like that too...but as you said...he'd still need a pad or cymbal of some sort. Even something small like a PD8 or CY-5 would work fine and still keep the kit compact.

[hairmetal-81]

Jerry, couldn't one just modify the control-box some more:


- The jack labeled 'module' stays unaltered - for the "single TRS HH input that has Bow and Edge zone for the HH cymbal plus the HH control function" (including the phantom-power)

- Now, instead of having the second jack labeled 'cymbal', could you do a mod there to have a MIDI-out?

Something that transmits on MIDI-Channel Omni, Note-numbers 42, 44 and 46, for closed, pedal and open (...or whatever the 2box want to see, to be able to work with, really!)


Basically, a one-channel Trigger-to-Midi interface inside a HH control-box? Even if that meant that the box itself would be bigger, and had to be mounted offset of the pedal?



Just ideas...

[kurth83]

I think you guys are almost but not quite getting what I am trying to do:

- A real pedal connected to the 2box, but MIDI events for the hat hits.

The Roland TD-9 handles this just fine, not clear if the 2box can or not yet.

So for the converter box I would not be plugging cymbals into it at all,
just using it as a pedal.

I think anyone with a MIDI controller and a 2box could test this easily enough,
set the MIDI controller to generate hat hits, and use the normal 2box hat pedal
to control it while whacking on the MIDI controller, if can do open and closed sounds
then we are good.

The Roland was a bit finicky with this, there are two MIDI notes Roland accepts for hats,
one for Open Hat, and one for Closed Hat, one of them was modified by the hat pedal
and one was not, so it took some trial and error to get it right.

I just need to get someone to try it for me.

Alternatively hacking a control pad to have a piezo out for one (or two) of the pads
would not be that hard, it could even be made switchable so the pad wouldn't
be ruined.

[hairmetal-81]

The 2box-Manual, p.32, shows that the hihat is triggered on consecutive notes A-2 (45), A#-2 (46) and B-2 (47).
If the your Control-Pad can be mapped to these note-numbers, you should be able to trigger the hihat this way, with the hihat-controller switching/affecting the notes played.


Maybe the trick works the other way around too: If the Hihat-controller can be assigned to control other inputs than the hihat-input on the 2box, you could trigger eg. a tom-rim channel with the CP, and assign a hihat -sound to it, controlled by the pedal. Try both ways, I guess...

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

Hmmm....I'm confused even more now....sounds like a lot of work to complicate something so simple as just utilizing the 2Box controller and input on the module since it will be right there at your fingertips to begin with.

[hairmetal-81]

Well... maybe you will end up with a setup that closely resembles that of member 'Tazed'. You will just have a crash cymbal less, but your Samplepad on the snare-stand on the right-hand side instead.



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[hairmetal-81]

It's very rough, but I just tried my hands at a little 'picture-merger'.


Kurth83's possible Setup





Very quick, but this is what your new setup could possibly look like...


HTH

[hairmetal-81]

Where is that [beep] picture? I saw it when I uploaded it...

[hairmetal-81]

............

[hairmetal-81]

Trying to attach the picture for (what feels like) the umpteenth time...

[hairmetal-81]

Guys, can you see pictures?.....

[fulrmr(Daniel)]

Nope.cant se them in this post. All your NAMM pics look finr though

[kurth83]

Ok, I had a great idea for how to solve the hi-hat pedal compatibility to drive a 2box with a MIDI controller.
And it would give my existing pedals full compatibility with both Roland and 2box modules.

Basically replace my Alesis Control Pad with a Roland SPD-30 Octapad, and plug the pedals into the SPD-30.
It has inputs for my existing controllers and looks like it's MIDI is compatible with the 2box,
(HH being the main concern, 2box will take CC4 so I don't see any problems there)..

Now I just have to build up enough GAS to spend $2k on a new drum kit.
We may have to wait a while for that one, since my cheapo kit meets all my needs at the moment.