Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2Box HH DIY - The Mystery Solved

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 2Box HH DIY - The Mystery Solved

    What you'll need:

    2Box Module
    2Box HiHat cymbal **(or 3rd party operation board)
    Plastic utility box, dimensions determined by installation.
    1 x 1/4" TRS Socket
    Standard HiHat stand
    "X" brand HiHat cymbal or DIY HiHat cymbal, standard 1/4" TRS output.
    1/2" Drill bit (or a smaller bit and then elarged with a Dremel - recommended)
    Small amount of hookup wire.
    Soldering iron/solder
    Multimeter (optional)
    No.1 phillips screwdriver
    3mm Allen Key
    Shifting wrench or Bullnose Pliers
    Button magnet, can be obtained from most craft stores/hardware stores. Approx 12mm - 1/2" diameter.
    Metal bracket or glue/epoxy for magnet fixing

    Time to complete : depending on installation, approx 1-2hrs.



    OK, so it seems that the 2Box revoloution is starting to gain momentum. This is a great thing as these are truly remarkable modules, and something the E-Drumming community has been asking for, for a long time.
    Theere is one quirk to the 2Box module that is unique to it, you HAVE to use the 2Box proprietry HiHat system with it in order to have a functioning HiHat pedal.

    But... there seems to be a hurdle that a lot of guys just can't get over... the HiHat is not all that great.

    And with good reason, I'm a 2Box owner myself and the HiHat (in fact the cymbals too) are quite a let down in terms of build longevity and construction methods.

    Basically in laymans terms... they're rubbish.

    Having said that, 2Box utilises, what I believe, to be the BEST HH Sensing system on the market today. It is able to be fitted onto any commercially available HiHat stand, so its universal appeal is brilliant, it gives that proper HiHat feel by using moving HiHat pad, just like the real thing. Its a contactless, magnetically operated hall effect sensor type of setup. The PCB sits withing the HiHat cymbal, and there is a stationary Magnetic block that sits onto the HiHat stand cymbal bed. It sits where a lower HiHat would normall sit, the HiHat cymbal then attaches via a regular type wingnut clutch (built into it) that clamps to the rod, and provides thr up/down motion. When fully depressed (HH closed) the magnetic block is closest to the HiHat cymbal, open and it moves further away, less magnetic force is sensed by the board and the signal is altered accordingly. Easy.

    There are NO moving parts and theoretically, it should never wear out... ever! Unlike the Roland system which used a FSR type (Force sensitive resistor) which relies on a pressure actuator to alter the resistance of the system, which is determined by the module to output the correct sound.

    That comes at a price, as the resistor is constantly subject to pressure variations, it wears the component and variations in operation after some time will creep into the hihat. This causes mistriggering, unwanted sound output and eventually failure of the component altogether.

    This is where the 2Box system shines. No wear, no failure. But, like anything man made components CAN and do fail, nothing is foolproof. But for all intensive purposes its a great system and if treated correctly will give perfect operation consistantly.

    So, you want a 2Box module and you have to use their HH, but don't want to use the rubbish 2Box HH cymbal, what to do?

    DIY of course!

    The beauty of the little 2Box HiHat system is the PCB is easily removed from the 2Box HiHat cymbal itself. Its a small, compact board that although designed to fit snugly within the very robust standard metal housing, it can very simply be attached into a small utility box and placed into a different place on a HiHat stand.

    Here is where we get into the good part.

    The most common (and what I did) way to achieve this is to mount the board underneath the footboard of a regular HiHat stand.

    So where you'll start is to remove the PCB from the 2Box HiHat cymbal. Start by loosening off the 3 x chrome Allen Key type screws that affix the casing to the HiHat cymbal:



    Get your small phillips head screwdriver and remove the small screw (1 of) holding the PCB onto the metal box, also loosen off (don't fully undo it, no need) the black plastic nut on the TRS Jack.
    Then remove the box, you'll be left with this:



    Get your soldering iron and desolder the wires. Don't worry about polarities, although you can document them if you ever want to put the board back into the HiHat cymbal at a later time.

    ***BE VERY CAREFUL HANDLING THE PCB!!!***

    You'll then have to PCB on its own:



    So then you'll get your utility box, something small enough to fit anywhere and large enough to house the board plus 1 x TRS female jack.

    I used a box 64mm x 38mm x 27mm, which had some small tabs on the side that I cut off. For any Aussie guys, I got it from Jaycar ( Box ) -$2.65



    Once the tabs where cut and filed back flat I had a box that fit PERFECTLY into my DW5500 HiHat stand. But you can fit the box under the footboard if you like. I fit it inbetween the pedal pillars as the point where the footbard attaches to the rod chain makes a great point to mount your magnet.

    So, once you have the box, you want to mark the best position for the TRS socket/PCB position. You want the magnetic sensor to be as close the the centre as possible. Also, you'll want the magnetic sensor to be as flat and close to the top of the box internally as possible.
    Drill/Dremel out your hole and mount the board to test fit. While its in, mark and drill a 2nd hole for the 2nd TRS socket. Leave enough room for the wiring and board clearance.

    **Another tip to add here is to make a note of EXACTLY where the magnetic sensor sits in relation to the mounting. Make a note of where it is by adding a mark to the plastic, or use a marker pen to make a mark alongside the board/sensor.
    You may choose to transfer the mark you made on the box to the "top" of the box by either drilling a fine hole, and measuring and remarking on the top surface. You'll need this point for reference when fitting the magnet.

    Remove the board and prepare to attach the wiring across to the 2nd TRS socket. It is needed to transfer the signal from the HH Piezo/switch to the PCB in order for the module to to be able to "read" the position of the HiHat. The PCB adds a signal that the Module requires.

    If you know the ouputs of the socket, attach wires to the Tip, Ring and sleeve tabs. If you are unsure what goes where, get a standard TRS lead and plug it into the socket, with your multimeter set to the "Ohms" or "Resistance" setting, put a test probe on the tip of the exposed unplugged TRS jack, and test for continutity to one of the pins of the TRS Socket.

    The Bow piezo positive wire (+) attaches to the "PP" point, and the negative wire (-) to the "PN" on the PCB
    The Edge switch wiring attaches to the "S2" and "SN" points, polarity is of no concern.

    Once you have found the "tip" conection, solder a piece of hookup wire to it and solder the other end to the "PP" pad on the PCB. Do the same for the other 3 connections. I say 3, because the "PN"and "SN" pads have a common connection and there is no need to have 4 wires, only 3 are needed.
    Solder the sleeve terminal to the "PN/SN" pad, and lastly the ring terminal to the "S2" pad.

    Refit the PBC and 2nd socket into your box. It should now look something like this:





    You may choose to mark the sockets, I didn't bother because I know one is a different style from the other, the all black one being the socket that will be plugged into the module, the other will then lead to your HiHat cymbal.

    Here it is fitted into the pillar base of the HiHat stand:



    Next up, attaching the magnet.
    Last edited by rasoo; 07-08-12, 11:23 AM.
    Rob
    Building GAS as we speak!! - TD11KV. Extra Yamaha cymbals. MDS-25 rack.

  • #2
    Ok, so once you have your box done. Where to mount it?

    I did mine in the Pillars as you can see but you can mount it underneath the footboard if you wish as well.

    You'll now need to make a way to attach a magnet to the board in order to affect the sensor in the box.

    This be be as simple as epoxying the magnet to a point on your board, or by means of a small bracket that fits to the stand.

    Here is how I did mine:

    First off you'll need some of these:



    They are ceramic magnets that you can get from craft stores and hardware stores. They are used to make small fridge magnets. I found these to work best as they are not overly powerful, but being thin you can double them up if you require a bit more power in the magnet.

    **It is important to note too, not to go too strong or too weak with the magnet, as either will affect the playability of the HiHat as a whole. I found 2 of these magnets to be just right. To strong and there will be less difference between "open" and "closed", so you'll effectively get closed and open sounds with not much, if any mid range sounds. Too weak and you'll have too much mid range and the cutoff area from full to closed becomes difficult to pinpoint. In short, it makes the Hats hard to play. So play around with magnet strength to get the best result.
    If you have the magnet mounted further away from the box, you'll need more strength in it to get the right result, if it mounts close (like mine) then less strength is needed.

    What you'll also need to do is note the polarity, THIS IS IMPORTANT as the incorrect polarity will have NO EFFECT on the magnetic sensor and you'll have NO operation of the sensor board.
    With the box complete, plug in the lead to the module, no need to worry about the cymbal for now.

    On the module, go into the HH Calibrate menu, get a magnet and hover it above the box (noting where you made your reference mark) and move it towards and away from the box. If the polarity is correct, you'll see the HH indicators go open and closed in relation to your movement. Make a note of the side facing "DOWN" and mark it. If you have no movement on the module display it means the magnet is in a reversed polarity.
    Simply flip it over and retry.
    Once again, mark it so you don't have to guess later.

    Once you have located the best position on the HiHat stand for you box, allowing enough clearance so it doesn't foul the footboard when your fully depressed, attach the box to the HiHat stand by either glue, velcro, double sided tape (recommended) or screws... however you wish.

    ***NOTE, be careful if you do screw it now to foul on the PCB inside!!!! It will break and you're up for another board.***

    I used a small "U" shaped bracket that attached via the affixing bolt of the pedal chain.





    You'll note the 2 x magnets, 1 underneath attached via some double sided tape, and the other on top which is held by magnetism.

    Also too I added some foam to the top of the box, so that when the magnet comes down it is in close contact with the plastic box, and this prevents any unwanted noise or damage should the clutch come loose and the magnet strikes the plastic box.

    A bit of insurance.

    Here is the completed assembly (note I only have 1 x magnet attached in this pic)



    There are many different ways to do the mechanics, but they all have the same principles. Others have done this and I welcome their pics to add so that others can see the various ways.

    Not all stands are the same, I was lucky in this method that my parts all fit, but do your planning and this is a REALLY simple exercise to do.

    The benefits are:

    Wider playabilty
    Greater choice of HiHat cymbals
    Lower cost to replace HiHat cymbal if it fails
    Pressure adjustability in the HiHat Stand
    regular hat feel and playing style.

    Bottom line is I am glad I did this, and I URGE any other 2Box owners or prospective buyers to consider doing this, if you're not confident, get someone who is to do it for you. No excuses!!!!
    Last edited by rasoo; 07-08-12, 03:43 AM.
    Rob
    Building GAS as we speak!! - TD11KV. Extra Yamaha cymbals. MDS-25 rack.

    Comment


    • #3
      Here is some info I have lifted from the 2Box forums.

      Credit to Manfred for this info:

      The following picture illustrates that. The x-axis shows the current through the sensor (not true to scale):



      By using a stronger magnet you can extend the range between open and closed for both zones. But this also means that the gap between both zones is getting smaller:




      By using a magnet which is too strong the gap between both zones tends to zero. And if this gap doesn't exist anymore the module can not differentiate between open bow sounds and closed edge sounds properly.

      Rob
      Building GAS as we speak!! - TD11KV. Extra Yamaha cymbals. MDS-25 rack.

      Comment


      • #4
        Rob, Could you not use the magnet that came with the 2boxHH?
        . digitalDrummer
        Review index

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by allanjohn View Post
          Rob, Could you not use the magnet that came with the 2boxHH?
          Not really as it is affixed with epoxy glue inside the original metal casing, removing it could also render it useless. Plus its rather large compared to these smaller items and they work just the same.
          Rob
          Building GAS as we speak!! - TD11KV. Extra Yamaha cymbals. MDS-25 rack.

          Comment


          • #6
            Awesome job Rob. You have reminded me, must call the dude who was looking at making a board...

            Comment


            • #7
              Rob,
              Thanks for posting this 'how to' for us!!
              It's just what all us 'prospective' 2Box users have wanted to know
              If I went that way I would love to utilize my VH-11 or even a Yammie and it is great to see it can be done and 'relatively' painlessly
              Cheers mate

              Comment


              • #8
                Superb walk through Rob, many thanks! I'm thinking about a 2box because I'm just not sure about the TD15 and the TD300 is way more than I am prepared to pay for a module.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Up to your usual standard, Rob. Concise, thorough and easy to understand.
                  You had me 2nd guessing my deposit on my TD-30 for a second there...!


                  iPad Tapatalk HD post

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rasoo View Post
                    What you'll need:

                    2Box Module
                    2Box HiHat cymbal **(or 3rd party operation board)
                    Plastic utility box, dimensions determined by installation.
                    1 x 1/4" TRS Socket
                    Standard HiHat stand
                    "X" brand HiHat cymbal or DIY HiHat cymbal, standard 1/4" TRS output.
                    1/2" Drill bit (or a smaller bit and then elarged with a Dremel - recommended)
                    Small amount of hookup wire.
                    Soldering iron/solder
                    Multimeter (optional)
                    No.1 phillips screwdriver
                    3mm Allen Key
                    Shifting wrench or Bullnose Pliers
                    Button magnet, can be obtained from most craft stores/hardware stores. Approx 12mm - 1/2" diameter.
                    Metal bracket or glue/epoxy for magnet fixing

                    Time to complete : depending on installation, approx 1-2hrs.



                    OK, so it seems that the 2Box revoloution is starting to gain momentum. This is a great thing as these are truly remarkable modules, and something the E-Drumming community has been asking for, for a long time.
                    Theere is one quirk to the 2Box module that is unique to it, you HAVE to use the 2Box proprietry HiHat system with it in order to have a functioning HiHat pedal.

                    But... there seems to be a hurdle that a lot of guys just can't get over... the HiHat is not all that great.

                    And with good reason, I'm a 2Box owner myself and the HiHat (in fact the cymbals too) are quite a let down in terms of build longevity and construction methods.

                    Basically in laymans terms... they're rubbish.

                    Having said that, 2Box utilises, what I believe, to be the BEST HH Sensing system on the market today. It is able to be fitted onto any commercially available HiHat stand, so its universal appeal is brilliant, it gives that proper HiHat feel by using moving HiHat pad, just like the real thing. Its a contactless, magnetically operated hall effect sensor type of setup. The PCB sits withing the HiHat cymbal, and there is a stationary Magnetic block that sits onto the HiHat stand cymbal bed. It sits where a lower HiHat would normall sit, the HiHat cymbal then attaches via a regular type wingnut clutch (built into it) that clamps to the rod, and provides thr up/down motion. When fully depressed (HH closed) the magnetic block is closest to the HiHat cymbal, open and it moves further away, less magnetic force is sensed by the board and the signal is altered accordingly. Easy.

                    There are NO moving parts and theoretically, it should never wear out... ever! Unlike the Roland system which used a FSR type (Force sensitive resistor) which relies on a pressure actuator to alter the resistance of the system, which is determined by the module to output the correct sound.

                    That comes at a price, as the resistor is constantly subject to pressure variations, it wears the component and variations in operation after some time will creep into the hihat. This causes mistriggering, unwanted sound output and eventually failure of the component altogether.

                    This is where the 2Box system shines. No wear, no failure. But, like anything man made components CAN and do fail, nothing is foolproof. But for all intensive purposes its a great system and if treated correctly will give perfect operation consistantly.

                    So, you want a 2Box module and you have to use their HH, but don't want to use the rubbish 2Box HH cymbal, what to do?

                    DIY of course!

                    The beauty of the little 2Box HiHat system is the PCB is easily removed from the 2Box HiHat cymbal itself. Its a small, compact board that although designed to fit snugly within the very robust standard metal housing, it can very simply be attached into a small utility box and placed into a different place on a HiHat stand.

                    Here is where we get into the good part.

                    The most common (and what I did) way to achieve this is to mount the board underneath the footboard of a regular HiHat stand.

                    So where you'll start is to remove the PCB from the 2Box HiHat cymbal. Start by loosening off the 3 x chrome Allen Key type screws that affix the casing to the HiHat cymbal:



                    Get your small phillips head screwdriver and remove the small screw (1 of) holding the PCB onto the metal box, also loosen off (don't fully undo it, no need) the black plastic nut on the TRS Jack.
                    Then remove the box, you'll be left with this:



                    Get your soldering iron and desolder the wires. Don't worry about polarities, although you can document them if you ever want to put the board back into the HiHat cymbal at a later time.

                    ***BE VERY CAREFUL HANDLING THE PCB!!!***

                    You'll then have to PCB on its own:



                    So then you'll get your utility box, something small enough to fit anywhere and large enough to house the board plus 1 x TRS female jack.

                    I used a box 64mm x 38mm x 27mm, which had some small tabs on the side that I cut off. For any Aussie guys, I got it from Jaycar ( Box ) -$2.65



                    Once the tabs where cut and filed back flat I had a box that fit PERFECTLY into my DW5500 HiHat stand. But you can fit the box under the footboard if you like. I fit it inbetween the pedal pillars as the point where the footbard attaches to the rod chain makes a great point to mount your magnet.

                    So, once you have the box, you want to mark the best position for the TRS socket/PCB position. You want the magnetic sensor to be as close the the centre as possible. Also, you'll want the magnetic sensor to be as flat and close to the top of the box internally as possible.
                    Drill/Dremel out your hole and mount the board to test fit. While its in, mark and drill a 2nd hole for the 2nd TRS socket. Leave enough room for the wiring and board clearance.

                    **Another tip to add here is to make a note of EXACTLY where the magnetic sensor sits in relation to the mounting. Make a note of where it is by adding a mark to the plastic, or use a marker pen to make a mark alongside the board/sensor.
                    You may choose to transfer the mark you made on the box to the "top" of the box by either drilling a fine hole, and measuring and remarking on the top surface. You'll need this point for reference when fitting the magnet.

                    Remove the board and prepare to attach the wiring across to the 2nd TRS socket. It is needed to transfer the signal from the HH Piezo/switch to the PCB in order for the module to to be able to "read" the position of the HiHat. The PCB adds a signal that the Module requires.

                    If you know the ouputs of the socket, attach wires to the Tip, Ring and sleeve tabs. If you are unsure what goes where, get a standard TRS lead and plug it into the socket, with your multimeter set to the "Ohms" or "Resistance" setting, put a test probe on the tip of the exposed unplugged TRS jack, and test for continutity to one of the pins of the TRS Socket.

                    The Bow piezo positive wire (+) attaches to the "PP" point, and the negative wire (-) to the "PN" on the PCB
                    The Edge switch wiring attaches to the "S2" and "SN" points, polarity is of no concern.

                    Once you have found the "tip" conection, solder a piece of hookup wire to it and solder the other end to the "PP" pad on the PCB. Do the same for the other 3 connections. I say 3, because the "PN"and "SN" pads have a common connection and there is no need to have 4 wires, only 3 are needed.
                    Solder the ring terminal to the "PN/SN" pad, and lastly the sleeve terminal to the "S2" pad.

                    Refit the PBC and 2nd socket into your box. It should now look something like this:





                    You may choose to mark the sockets, I didn't bother because I know one is a different style from the other, the all black one being the socket that will be plugged into the module, the other will then lead to your HiHat cymbal.

                    Here it is fitted into the pillar base of the HiHat stand:



                    Next up, attaching the magnet.
                    Rob, on your wiring for the additional jack to the PCB above, PP, S2, PN/SN ........ you said, wire the Sleeve to S2 .... Shouldn't that be, tip to PP, Ring to S2, and Sleeve to PN/SN?
                    I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
                    Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ah yes.. a typo, thanks I'll fix that now, cheers Jerry.

                      Fixed original post.
                      Rob
                      Building GAS as we speak!! - TD11KV. Extra Yamaha cymbals. MDS-25 rack.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nice....thanks.
                        8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
                        http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          For those that are really looking for the easy way on using the PCB out of the 2Box HH, on my 1st one I just snipped the PCB wires and mounted the PCB in a box .... using a stereo headphone type splitter in the Jack, no soldering involved, running one TRS cable to the module and one to the HH cymbal. I was a little concerned when I did that first one, because there is a small amount of DC power, about 3.8 volts that goes through the Ring and I wasn't sure what the results would be splitting this at the 2Box Jack, but it worked fine. Robs project above though is definitely a better way to go, wired up just like the 2Box HH and everything in a single box.

                          here's my quick n lazy DIY 2Box HH box/controller I put together by robbing the PCB from a 2Box HH when I first got my module to be able to use my own HH cymbals:



                          That was my first ... I later changed to a magnet about half the power of that one after a little more testing when I changed to Manfred's board that I am using now. My current magnet is still a strong one, but it is mounted to the footboard bottom now about an inch away from the box in the closed position, so it gives me a nice range and doesn't have to be super close to the hall sensor.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by JmanWord; 04-22-13, 10:52 AM.
                          I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
                          Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks to Rob and Jman for the add'l details in this thread. Using Manfred's box with my Hart hi-hats, I'd gotten ok-but-not-excellent results on the 2box. Reading this thread a few times - particularly Rob's enthusiasm for what he'd accomplished with this mod - encouraged me to do some more tweaking with the magnets' strength and positioning. I moved some things around, and dropped from two stacked magnets to one. The end result is the best electronic hats I've ever had.

                            Thanks again for the information sharing and encouragement that goes on here, and at the 2box forums as well. Great stuff!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Awesome! Obviously you had too much magnetic effect and it was causing issues, good to see you stuck with it and got it properly sorted.
                              Rob
                              Building GAS as we speak!! - TD11KV. Extra Yamaha cymbals. MDS-25 rack.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X