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Easy to make DIY HiHat controller

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  • #61
    Your problem seems odd to me...
    I think we need the help of someone that use the IO with a FSR : Chuckytuh we need you,
    until we get the confirmation that it's possible to get full range of CC04 and full velocity of foot chik with this FSR on the IO, I can't really help you.
    My fear is that the IO need the resistor to reach 0ohms to get the value 127 of the CC04, it may explain why you can't get consistant foot chiks.
    Last edited by Sylv1co; 01-29-13, 11:59 AM.

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    • #62
      Don't know how I missed this posts, I'm sorry!

      I've rebuilt my controller because, as it was stated here before by Sylv1co, when I hit the cymbal it was putting some pressure on the FSR, although the values reached were low, I wasn't happy with it so this is what I have now:



      With the previous build I was able to reach the max value on the CC04 (127) without much effort but with this new build and because of the type of foam used I only reach around 110 as you can see on the video



      The parameters set for the hihat pedal input on the trigger IO are:
      Gain - 7
      Velocity Curve - Lin
      Threshold - 10
      X-Talk - 10
      Retrigger - 30

      I've installed SD2to try the variable hihat and, following the steps given by Gastric present on this thread it worked correctly, at least I believe, although the foot chick and foot splash are weird because on the Trigger IO it sends the midi note nearly the middle of the travel, ie, it triggers the pedal note around 67/73.

      Here's a demo with SD2: http://youtu.be/ma_pr6GaJEM


      Edit: I confirm that, by pressure with my fingers, I am able to reach the maximum value so there's no need to have a resistor to get this working properly with the trigger io
      Last edited by Chuckytuh; 01-28-13, 04:01 PM.
      Making my way into diy edrums and failing to resist GAS!
      Kit: Alesis Trigger IO + DIY Acrilic Cymbals + FSR Hihat Controller
      Kit Pics here!

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      • #63
        Thanks a lot for sharing


        I confirm that, by pressure with my fingers, I am able to reach the maximum value so there's no need to have a resistor to get this working properly with the trigger io
        Max value of CCO4 I assume, but are you able to reach max value of the foot chik velocity with your finger ?


        although the foot chick and foot splash are weird because on the Trigger IO it sends the midi note nearly the middle of the travel, ie, it triggers the pedal note around 67/73.
        On My TD-12, the footchick note is sent when CCO4 is at 90. I think it is quite the same with the IO. It means that 90 should be the point where the two cymbals begin to touch together.
        Seeing your build, I think our foam is too soft and to thick. The average distance between two cymbal on a hi hat is about 1,5cm, your foam should be about 1,5 or 2cm max.

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        • #64
          Yes, max value of CC04 and I can get the highest velocity on the foot chick both with foot and with fingers.

          The foam is thick intentionally because the piece of metal I had here already with a hole in it for the TRS plug was small so I had to stick it almost near the end of the pedal and compensate the height with a thicker piece of foam. I might try another foam type with more density tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

          I need to get some sleep now, I've been around this kit for more than 12 hours >.<
          Making my way into diy edrums and failing to resist GAS!
          Kit: Alesis Trigger IO + DIY Acrilic Cymbals + FSR Hihat Controller
          Kit Pics here!

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          • #65
            Yes, max value of CC04 and I can get the highest velocity on the foot chick both with foot and with fingers.
            OK, thanks, that's enough to be sure that's the FSR is really compatible with the IO. Like I already said, the rest is a matter of thickness and softness of the material that press the FSR. (foam or spring+rubber like mine).


            From my experience with S2, it's important that the CCO04 reach its max value of 127 otherwise the footsplashes are not as loud as the footchik (it's not possible to set footsplash velocity in S2).

            Going back to your problem Circlecr, you may have either bad solder or a faulty FSR (check with a meter) or even a faulty trigger IO (last does not really surpise me...). To test your IO you need another HH controller (that works !) or... another FSR !
            If you had soldered the wires directly on the FSR, your Iron may have deteriorated the condutcivity of the electrical connections (don't use an iron above 30W).
            Hope it helps, let us know.

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            • #66
              Thanks for testing that out, I too had it up to 127 with 2 fingers. However my foot chik was still activating at around 65 or 70 even with fingers. Now if you boost the gain You can get high velocity on the sound but still activates early and this was all tested in MIDIOX.

              Now if had a realhat pedal to test would be nice

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              • #67
                However my foot chik was still activating at around 65 or 70 even with fingers
                When you first say that in your early post I thought you were talking about the velocity of the foot chik, but now I understand that the foot chik is triggered when CC04 level reach 65 or 70, am I right ?
                If I'm right, I think this is the way the IO is made, see the video post by chuckytuh, he's got the same behavior.
                S2 let you set a curve for the CC04, you might set it so an input of 65 gives an output of about 90 or higher.
                On your fsr/cymbal system, the CC04 at 65 or 70 (value given by the IO) should correspond to the point where the hihat is almost closed (open 1 sound), a light additionnal pressure should give you the closed sound and just by raising your heel, you should get the tight sound.
                Setting the system that press the FSR is the point where you should pass the most of your time, this is the most important. When it is set correctly then try to set the curve of the CC04 in S2.

                By the way, are you able to get a full range of foot chik velocity with your finger ?

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                • #68
                  And see my system with a spring and a rubber piece inside : the spring give a light pressure for about 1,5cm (CC04 from 0 to about 90) and then the rubber piece give the rest of the pressure for a few millimeters (CC04 from about 90 to 127).
                  You could make a similiar system with foam and rubber, the rubber must touch the FSR when CC04 reach 70 (for the IO).

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                  • #69
                    I actually tried that velocity curve out last night lol it works i put the io calibration on 20 and just moved the curve to around 70 but such a short range now. I can also reach full velocity on foot chik with higher gain setting.

                    Really want to make a piezo foot chik. I am using a vintage camco hi-hat stand the one with a leather strap, i have and accessory clamp attached to stop the pedal. I am working on mounting piezo on this clamp to mimic the foot chik because i dont have a 2 cymbal system.

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                    • #70
                      hello, it looks like a great work. i'm going to use this on a megadrum midi trigger and i'm a bit confused about the "closed-chick" and "heel-splash" sounds. all i see here is a force-sensing resistor but i don't get how chick and splash sounds are sensed here? is there some other sensors (like piezos or switches) for those sounds; or is it done by the module? (like, the module understands the signal as a chick, if the signal goes up from zero to top very fast, or as a splash if the signal goes up and down very fast).

                      another question, which force range fsr did you use for this setup (please define the unit, like lbs or kg-force)

                      sorry for my english and the noob question, but i'm new to diy stuff and hope i managed to make myself clear. thanks for sharing such great ideas with us

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                      • #71
                        i'm going to use this on a megadrum midi trigger
                        I can't promise you that this FSR hh is compatible with magadrum, but I think it is since one of the last megadrum firmware has been made to work with the VH11 and VH12.

                        i'm a bit confused about the "closed-chick" and "heel-splash" sounds. all i see here is a force-sensing resistor but i don't get how chick and splash sounds are sensed here? is there some other sensors (like piezos or switches) for those sounds; or is it done by the module? (like, the module understands the signal as a chick, if the signal goes up from zero to top very fast, or as a splash if the signal goes up and down very fast).
                        Foot chiks are triggered by the module itself using only the FSR. A roland module trigger foot splash as well but it doesn't send any midi note for it. S2 triggered foot splash by reading the CCO4 level (midi control change n4) just after a foot chik is triggered.

                        Please tell us how it works with your megadrum once it's made.

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                        • #72
                          thanks for your time Sylv1co, i'd cast the same topic to the megadrum forum simultaneously and this is dmitri's (creater of the megadrum) answer to my question:

                          "As long as the resistance varies sufficiently and gradually with the pressure then it will work with MegaDrum. What is the resistance of the this controller when it is open, semi-open, closed?

                          Splashes and Chicks are either generated by MegaDrum itself based on the HiHat pedal movement or by a sound synthesizer based on the HiHat MIDI CC messages received from MegaDrum."

                          so i would like to direct dmitri's question to the original poster.

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                          • #73
                            What is the resistance of the this controller when it is open, semi-open, closed?
                            The FSR give a resistance from about 2mOhms with a very light pressure to about 0,5k with strong pressure. But the usefull range depend on what material you'll use to press the FSR.
                            By adding a 20kohm resistor in parallel with it, you get a range of 20k to about 0,5k. It may help in some situation but the most important thing is to take time to choose the materials that press the FSR. This is what will put your system into the good range of resistance/height between open and closed.

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                            • #74
                              https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9376

                              does this sensor work good? it says it has a sensitive range of 100 grams to 10 kilograms. i'm not sure if one can apply more force with his foot and exceed that limit

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                              • #75
                                There's 5 pages of positive feedback, so, I would venture that this sensor "work good".

                                Thing is, you don't have to crush the thing with 10kg pressure to make it work.
                                Put a piece of foam, the pressure from the upper hat is enough. I slid mine under the HH pedal but I stop the pedal before it bottoms out.

                                Your module has calibration to see the variations from the controller and will adjust high and low positions accordingly.
                                DTX700, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH Kit Pix

                                My new venture: voglosounds.com

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