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Drop-in Dual Zone Trigger Collaboration ChromeBoy/JmanWord

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  • Drop-in Dual Zone Trigger Collaboration ChromeBoy/JmanWord

    JmanWord and I wanted to start a thread related to a recent project we've been working on. A collaboration to create a drop-in, dual-zone trigger system.

    A couple of comments...
    First, this design places an object directly in contact with the bearing edge of the drum. Although I have found no damage, I'm using a very inexpensive kit that I never intend to play acoustically. Always remember to be very careful with the bearing edge of your drums.
    Second, this drop-in is an alternative to the tried-and-true crossbar method, not a replacement. In fact, I use one of Jman's 14" trigger kits on my snare and its my favorite drum!
    Finally, the process of collaborating with JmanWord on the project has been a blast. The people on this site are an incredible resource and its been great fun sharing the build process. Thanks to everyone here and elsewhere who graciously share their DIY efforts. You guys rock!

    I started playing around with the idea of a drop-in trigger in December. Version 1 was simply a 9" x 2" deep cake pan with a foam column in the center... 4 layers of 1/2" Poron about 1.5" in diameter stuck onto a piezo, which was stuck to the bottom of the pan with some foam tape. Fast and simple.

    I found that the pan fit into a 10" tom, resting on the bearing edge. I attached some 1/4" thick foam weather stripping from the home store around the outside of the pan to keep it snug and provide some isolation. I don't have any pics of it, but it worked nicely. However, it got me thinking about a dual-zone option.

    Using some sheets of 3mm thick hobby foam, I created a foam "donut" that could support a head trigger on top and surround a rim trigger which would be stuck directly to the bottom of the pan. It was all stuck together using KRT. I switched from a simple column of foam to a cone made from 3 pieces of 1/2" Poron.

    The build process was pretty simply. It produced perfect head response using the PD105 preset on my TD-20. It also produced 360 degree rim triggering with a single piezo. Very cool.

    It worked well enough that I ordered cake pans to fit the rest of my kit. Each pan is 1" smaller than the diameter of the drum. They all fit fine, although I found that the larger the pan, the tighter the fit. For the 14" drums, I switched to 1/8" thick weather stripping. I'm currently using 9", 11" and 13" drop-ins in my 10", 12" and 14" toms and they work great! I don't own a 16" floor tom, but I suspect a 15" pan would fit nicely inside the shell.

    Because there are no restaurant supply stores near me, I had to order the pans online. My guess is that those of you in bigger cities can find the pans locally. Jman recently found a site that had every size he wanted and the price was really reasonable. I'm sure he'll link to it if anyone is interested.

    I had been talking to JmanWord about the build process and he offered to help me test the design. So, I shipped him a 10" drop-in. After some initial testing, he redesigned the head trigger platform. I'll let Jman explain it from here but needless to say, Jman's Version 3 worked so well, I abandoned the foam "donut" and started rebuilding my triggers using his re-design.

    OK Jman, you're up...
    Attached Files

  • gorogozo
    replied
    thk

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  • fulrmr(Daniel)
    replied
    Originally posted by kcmedic View Post
    Did I miss it, or has this not been shared yet?
    Nope...he has not posted it yet as far as I know.

    Leave a comment:


  • kcmedic
    replied
    Originally posted by cheapthrill View Post
    Oh, wow, I just realized that I've never shared my little trick to solve this without cutting the pan or finding the right screws.... it would be easier to explain it with visuals than try to describe it, so I will come back a little later when I can demonstrate what I am talking about.
    Did I miss it, or has this not been shared yet?

    Leave a comment:


  • hemiboy
    replied
    Originally posted by allanjohn View Post
    DIY drop-in pan triggers.
    Thanks a lot Allan

    Leave a comment:


  • allanjohn
    replied
    Originally posted by hemiboy View Post
    What kind of triggers are you talking about here Allan?
    DIY drop-in pan triggers.

    Leave a comment:


  • hemiboy
    replied
    What kind of triggers are you talking about here Allan?

    Leave a comment:


  • fulrmr(Daniel)
    replied
    Originally posted by Ronnie Balz View Post
    Quick question, I just got my brand new DTX900 module. Loving it. My cake-pan snare is having one issue though, sometimes a second strike is damping the ring-out of the first strike. If I press down lightly on the center of the head -- on the cone -- problem solved. So either the head is too loose -- hope not cause it plays just right -- or my cone needs to come up higher. Or is it a setting inside the DTX900? Thx
    Try tightening the head first because it's easiest step....if that does not work....raise the cone and tighten the head.....if that doesn't work...check the settings.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronnie Balz
    replied
    Quick question, I just got my brand new DTX900 module. Loving it. My cake-pan snare is having one issue though, sometimes a second strike is damping the ring-out of the first strike. If I press down lightly on the center of the head -- on the cone -- problem solved. So either the head is too loose -- hope not cause it plays just right -- or my cone needs to come up higher. Or is it a setting inside the DTX900? Thx

    Leave a comment:


  • fulrmr(Daniel)
    replied
    Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
    Good to see ya CB ..... I'll bet you didn't realize how big of an impact your wife's cake pan would have on the Edrum diy community. This Drop in Pan conversion is turning out to be a pretty universal system. With simple mods like changing piezo sizes to accommodate different modules .... slight sound dampening to the pan to make it quieter if needed, and the fact you can switch back and forth between acoustic or electronic if desired .... quite a contribution you have made! J
    Agreed. I won't build any other design as long as I can help it. Very cool indeed.

    Leave a comment:


  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by ChromeBoy View Post
    Excellent mod Jman, great work (as always)!!
    Good to see ya CB ..... I'll bet you didn't realize how big of an impact your wife's cake pan would have on the Edrum diy community. This Drop in Pan conversion is turning out to be a pretty universal system. With simple mods like changing piezo sizes to accommodate different modules .... slight sound dampening to the pan to make it quieter if needed, and the fact you can switch back and forth between acoustic or electronic if desired .... quite a contribution you have made! J

    Leave a comment:


  • ChromeBoy
    replied
    Excellent mod Jman, great work (as always)!!

    Leave a comment:


  • allanjohn
    replied
    Good post, Jman. I used 25mmm for the rim and get good triggering on both the TD-30 and the 2box.

    Leave a comment:


  • fulrmr(Daniel)
    replied
    Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
    When I first switched over to the 2Box module a few years back I tested both my original crossbar multi-piezo mesh drums as well as my Drop in Pan mesh drums with the 2Box module. I ended up using my crossbar drums as they perform excellent with very little trigger parameter tweaking at all. Since then I did try my Drop in pan snare a couple times with the 2Box module but was never able to simply adjust the trigger parameters and get the head/rim triggering as perfect as my crossbar design. The other day I decided to open up the drum and do a little modding if necessary to get the response I wanted. I also have the SPD-30 so can test these with that as well as the 2Box module. I have mentioned it before, but again, the newer Roland modules are very user friendly as far as getting many different pads to trigger well, they just have such a wide range of trigger parameter adjustments! So it is not surprising that my original pan build functions quite well on the SPD-30.
    My original pan build was made using 35MM piezos for both head and rim. Since it seemed the rim was very hot using the 35MM rim piezo for the 2Box drum, I switched that out with a 15MM piezo. My results were very pleasing. Plug n Play that way .... same parameter for the snare as I am using for my crossbar build, very consistent head and rim triggering.... One other hint I would put out there, make sure you get good contact with the head foam .... my normal 1/8" above the bearing edge is the ticket here.... pretty important actually with the 2Box module, too low and you will get more errant triggering .... Ie rim triggering from the head.... Since I already use quick connects for the piezos it was a pretty quick mod for me ..... Now all that just to take the drum I modded, put it back in the case and put it away. I plan to keep using my Acrylic blues, but I did want to get the pan build working well for the 2Box.
    Also .... With the smaller rim piezo I found that the trigger parameters I used in the SPD-30 ended up closer to factory PD-125 or 128 settings also, although I think I still prefer the larger rim piezo with the SPD-30 as the trigger parameters can be adjusted and that is a very sensitive piezo, great unless it is a little too hot ... like with the 2Box module.

    Anyway, just in case that helps anyone, a smaller piezo in the bottom of the pan and making sure your foam cone is about 1/8" above the bearing edge of the drums works quite well for me ...
    15MM compared with 35MM piezo
    Cool. Mine trigger very well also using a 25mm.

    Leave a comment:


  • JmanWord
    replied
    Drop in Pan: my slight mod for 2Box module

    When I first switched over to the 2Box module a few years back I tested both my original crossbar multi-piezo mesh drums as well as my Drop in Pan mesh drums with the 2Box module. I ended up using my crossbar drums as they perform excellent with very little trigger parameter tweaking at all. Since then I did try my Drop in pan snare a couple times with the 2Box module but was never able to simply adjust the trigger parameters and get the head/rim triggering as perfect as my crossbar design. The other day I decided to open up the drum and do a little modding if necessary to get the response I wanted. I also have the SPD-30 so can test these with that as well as the 2Box module. I have mentioned it before, but again, the newer Roland modules are very user friendly as far as getting many different pads to trigger well, they just have such a wide range of trigger parameter adjustments! So it is not surprising that my original pan build functions quite well on the SPD-30.
    My original pan build was made using 35MM piezos for both head and rim. Since it seemed the rim was very hot using the 35MM rim piezo for the 2Box drum, I switched that out with a 20MM piezo. My results were very pleasing. Plug n Play that way .... same parameter for the snare as I am using for my crossbar build, very consistent head and rim triggering.... One other hint I would put out there, make sure you get good contact with the head foam .... my normal 1/8" above the bearing edge is the ticket here.... pretty important actually with the 2Box module, too low and you will get more errant triggering .... Ie rim triggering from the head.... Since I already use quick connects for the piezos it was a pretty quick mod for me ..... Now all that just to take the drum I modded, put it back in the case and put it away. I plan to keep using my Acrylic blues, but I did want to get the pan build working well for the 2Box.
    Also .... With the smaller rim piezo I found that the trigger parameters I used in the SPD-30 ended up closer to factory PD-125 or 128 settings also, although I think I still prefer the larger rim piezo with the SPD-30 as the trigger parameters can be adjusted and that is a very sensitive piezo, great unless it is a little too hot ... like with the 2Box module.

    Anyway, just in case that helps anyone, a smaller piezo in the bottom of the pan and making sure your foam cone is about 1/8" above the bearing edge of the drums works quite well for me ...
    20MM compared with 35MM piezo
    Attached Files
    Last edited by JmanWord; 09-08-13, 11:30 PM. Reason: corrected piezo size

    Leave a comment:

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