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  • cheapthrill
    replied
    Originally posted by frankzappa View Post
    I made a discovery that might interest you people who think the pans are noisy. I installed one of them in my 9 ply snare, it's dead silent. I installed one today into my tom that has thinner wood ....BOOING. The 9 ply on my snare makes the pan sit very tight against the wood and deadens the sound. So tomorrow I will try and put some kind of insulation that will make the pans sit tight to the inside of the drum and see how it works. I'll let you know.
    Cool. When I built my DIPS last spring, I used vinyl strips/tape around the external circumference for a tight fit to keep the lips centered in the shell... turns out a bonus effect was that the pan was also quieter. I would suggest a type of weather-stripping, it is a good time of year for choices.

    No offense meant, but I don't believe that a dead silence is possible here just by simply having a tight fit along the wall of the pan, at least not without something to dampen the floor of the pan too. However, eliminating the vibration of the walls does go a long way and the overall noise present may be so negligible that it is easy to ignore, which is all that really matters in the end anyhow.

    Leave a comment:


  • frankzappa
    replied
    I made a discovery that might interest you people who think the pans are noisy. I installed one of them in my 9 ply snare, it's dead silent. I installed one today into my tom that has thinner wood ....BOOING. The 9 ply on my snare makes the pan sit very tight against the wood and deadens the sound. So tomorrow I will try and put some kind of insulation that will make the pans sit tight to the inside of the drum and see how it works. I'll let you know.

    Leave a comment:


  • fulrmr(Daniel)
    replied
    Originally posted by rasoo View Post
    3 attempts and 3 failures. And I am quite well aware of how to build an E drum.

    Sorry Quartz but that is 3 strikes.
    Sounds like with a good source right there at home for piezos....sending off to Canada was a bit out of the way for you anyway. At least you have it sorted out now. Saving money by DIYing becomes frustrating, to say the least, when you you end up with bad/wrong parts....I have a pile or 2 of them myself.

    Leave a comment:


  • rasoo
    replied
    Originally posted by fulrmr(Daniel) View Post
    I've built over 30 pans in different sizes using Quartz's cone/triggers....not a single flaw in any and they all support PS just fine.
    3 attempts and 3 failures. And I am quite well aware of how to build an E drum.

    Sorry Quartz but that is 3 strikes.

    Leave a comment:


  • JmanWord
    replied
    Yeah, I had a similar problem on my 14" tom.... A piezo with just a tiny crack in the ceramic can really test you. It isn't always the exact same symptoms. Sometimes you will get strange PS .... sometimes rimshot when hitting the head.... sometimes the head sensitivity is reduced... sometimes missed hits...

    But as far as being able to get excellent results with Quartz triggers, or other brands of piezo other than Roland .... as Dan says, no problem at all. I have used Roland, Quartz, my own home made Poron Cones with DigiKey piezos .... All good. J

    Leave a comment:


  • fulrmr(Daniel)
    replied
    Originally posted by rasoo View Post
    Alright... a bit of info to share.

    So it turns out my Quartz sourced head trigger (cone and piezo) were playing up on my 14" snare. I was having major P.S issues and after a while the snare would not record a centre hit with the P.S function turned on... no matter what I did to the settings.

    "...fragged piezo I reckon" I said to myself. And yeah I was right.

    After an unsuccessful attempt at using the "Pan" method on my 13" snare I was rather reluctant to go the same route with the 14". But seeing as the X-bar was working ok, I was still getting a bit of inconsistency with X-stick hits.

    Seeing as I was replacing the head trigger anyway I decided I would give the pan method another go on this snare. So I ordered a 13" Fat Daddio's pan from my local supplier (we only get them in 3" deep... which kinda sucks really...) and transferred a few things from the 12" pan I had to the 13" pan.

    I wanted to alter a few things too. To help deaden the awful "ringing" what I did was to pack the backside of the snare with some packing foam sheet I got from WildWes (he sent me a Hart Multipad which was extremely well packed!!) which was in the box it came in. Perfect size for a 14" snare! I used enough so that the bottom mesh head was securing the foam enough to deaden the ring. Good stuff. It still a bit noisier than the x-bar, but nowhere near as bad as the last time I tried the Pan.

    Now, back to the trigger....

    Ian (Twistedmellow) and I ordered some genuine Roland piezo's and cones. Seeing as I needed one, and Sydney is far closer to me than Canada, I decided to try the genuine article. I didn't think it was too expensive for them so I figured I would try it out, no harm no foul.

    People.... I cannot stress this enough....

    The Roland parts just work flawlessly. I am able to set this snare to just off factory PD125X settings and it works just like a Roland drum.
    X-stick is there, rimshots are there and the P.S is perfect.

    I was unable to get a drum this good using the same parts in another drum... the variable was the Quartz trigger. Change to the genuine thing and bingo.

    I'll be buying Roland cones from now on.

    I'm a happy drummer as I got the thing to work, finally using the Pans and still have a fairly quiet drum.
    I've built over 30 pans in different sizes using Quartz's cone/triggers....not a single flaw in any and they all support PS just fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • cheapthrill
    replied
    Originally posted by rasoo View Post
    Seeing as I was replacing the head trigger anyway I decided I would give the pan method another go on this snare. So I ordered a 13" Fat Daddio's pan from my local supplier (we only get them in 3" deep... which kinda sucks really...) and transferred a few things from the 12" pan I had to the 13" pan.

    I wanted to alter a few things too. To help deaden the awful "ringing" what I did was to pack the backside of the snare with some packing foam sheet I got from WildWes (he sent me a Hart Multipad which was extremely well packed!!) which was in the box it came in. Perfect size for a 14" snare! I used enough so that the bottom mesh head was securing the foam enough to deaden the ring. Good stuff. It still a bit noisier than the x-bar, but nowhere near as bad as the last time I tried the Pan.

    The Roland parts just work flawlessly. I am able to set this snare to just off factory PD125X settings and it works just like a Roland drum.
    X-stick is there, rimshots are there and the P.S is perfect.

    I was unable to get a drum this good using the same parts in another drum... the variable was the Quartz trigger. Change to the genuine thing and bingo.
    Fat Daddios are very good for this application, I think they were the choice of most people who were pleased with their results.

    You did what I did when I built my snare. I used a chunk of medium density foam that filled the gap between the reso head and the bottom of the pan. But just to warn those who might run out and buy some foam now- more is not better. Too much much foam under compression may deaden the rim signal too much, especially if a.) the pan already has dampening inside it and B.) you are using a module other than the TD-20. I noticed when I tried my triggers with a TD-20 that the rim was much more sensitive than the TD-8 that I have, and I'd wager that this would be the case with most other modules.

    I made my own cones for my pans and am extremely pleased with their performance. I'm sure they are not the exact same as Roland cones or anything, but the ingredients that go into a build just cook differently from person to person sometimes. Roland cones would be the most ideal way to go, but certainly the most cost prohibitive as well. If I were in your shoes though, Rob, I'd have tried them too. Glad you are finally enjoying the pan conversion for all its worth now.

    Leave a comment:


  • rasoo
    replied
    Alright... a bit of info to share.

    So it turns out my Quartz sourced head trigger (cone and piezo) were playing up on my 14" snare. I was having major P.S issues and after a while the snare would not record a centre hit with the P.S function turned on... no matter what I did to the settings.

    "...fragged piezo I reckon" I said to myself. And yeah I was right.

    After an unsuccessful attempt at using the "Pan" method on my 13" snare I was rather reluctant to go the same route with the 14". But seeing as the X-bar was working ok, I was still getting a bit of inconsistency with X-stick hits.

    Seeing as I was replacing the head trigger anyway I decided I would give the pan method another go on this snare. So I ordered a 13" Fat Daddio's pan from my local supplier (we only get them in 3" deep... which kinda sucks really...) and transferred a few things from the 12" pan I had to the 13" pan.

    I wanted to alter a few things too. To help deaden the awful "ringing" what I did was to pack the backside of the snare with some packing foam sheet I got from WildWes (he sent me a Hart Multipad which was extremely well packed!!) which was in the box it came in. Perfect size for a 14" snare! I used enough so that the bottom mesh head was securing the foam enough to deaden the ring. Good stuff. It still a bit noisier than the x-bar, but nowhere near as bad as the last time I tried the Pan.

    Now, back to the trigger....

    Ian (Twistedmellow) and I ordered some genuine Roland piezo's and cones. Seeing as I needed one, and Sydney is far closer to me than Canada, I decided to try the genuine article. I didn't think it was too expensive for them so I figured I would try it out, no harm no foul.

    People.... I cannot stress this enough....

    The Roland parts just work flawlessly. I am able to set this snare to just off factory PD125X settings and it works just like a Roland drum.
    X-stick is there, rimshots are there and the P.S is perfect.

    I was unable to get a drum this good using the same parts in another drum... the variable was the Quartz trigger. Change to the genuine thing and bingo.

    I'll be buying Roland cones from now on.

    I'm a happy drummer as I got the thing to work, finally using the Pans and still have a fairly quiet drum.

    Leave a comment:


  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by frankzappa View Post
    Hey dudes, I've done a snaredrum, I'm getting great triggering but to the left of the cone there were deadzones. I changed the polarity and it triggers fine now.

    I had mono jack sockets lying around and I've only wired the top piezo for now, (I'm waiting for the TRS jacks to ship). This was just to test it out. I can't get positional sensing to work though, is that because I'm using a mono jack socket? I've put a stereo cable into a mono input BTW.

    I'm using the Roland TD8 module, is there a settings menu for positional sensing. I've tried the 10A, 10B, 12A, and 12B pads but no positional sensing.
    You need to start a new thread Frank ...

    Leave a comment:


  • frankzappa
    replied
    Hey dudes, I've done a snaredrum, I'm getting great triggering but to the left of the cone there were deadzones. I changed the polarity and it triggers fine now.

    I had mono jack sockets lying around and I've only wired the top piezo for now, (I'm waiting for the TRS jacks to ship). This was just to test it out. I can't get positional sensing to work though, is that because I'm using a mono jack socket? I've put a stereo cable into a mono input BTW.

    I'm using the Roland TD8 module, is there a settings menu for positional sensing. I've tried the 10A, 10B, 12A, and 12B pads but no positional sensing.

    Leave a comment:


  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by frankzappa View Post
    I'll have to drill a tiny bit but the original grommet will still fit if I decide to sell the kit. It's a Gretsch Catalina Ash kit so it's not that expensive anyway.

    BTW can I solder one of the wires from the head piezo to the other pole on the bottom piezo and have one wire going from there to the TRS jack? I'm talking about the wires that are going to the same pole on the TRS jack.
    You could, but you only save a few inches of wire. I definitely would not solder the wire directly from the head ceramic to the brass of the rim piezo because that will create just one more vibration link between the 2 piezos even though it might be minimal.... it might cause rim shots to be triggered more easily when hitting the head. I always hook head piezo and Rim piezo up separately with quick connects. If you ever need to change a damaged piezo, 99% of the time it would be a head piezo since that gets a more direct impact. With the 2 piezos wired together it makes it that much more difficult to change out the piezo.
    Last edited by JmanWord; 12-04-10, 05:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • frankzappa
    replied
    Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
    The size of the air vent hole can vary by 1/16" or so depending on brand and model of drum. Many of the drums I have converted will fit the NYS221 deep panel jack after removing the grommet. Occasionally you may have to drill the hole out a tiny bit... the hole needs to be about 15/32" for that jack. If you are concerned about converting the drums back to acoustics there are threaded vent grommets that can replace the ones you remove and they will fit the hole you drill:

    http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...oducts_id=2274
    I'll have to drill a tiny bit but the original grommet will still fit if I decide to sell the kit. It's a Gretsch Catalina Ash kit so it's not that expensive anyway.

    BTW can I solder one of the wires from the head piezo to the other pole on the bottom piezo and have one wire going from there to the TRS jack? I'm talking about the wires that are going to the same pole on the TRS jack.

    Leave a comment:


  • cheapthrill
    replied
    Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
    The OD on that pan is 21" .... On the cake pans the OD is actually larger than the size you buy ... ie, a 9" pan is more like 9 1/2" at the OD of the lip.... that pizza pan says it is 21" OD ...That will be a little smaller than your kick and won't reach the rim. And looks very shallow. If you are set on using a pan for the kick, You could mount that to L brackets and the L brackets to your interior lug screws and adjust the distance the pan is from the head by the brackets. Personally I don't worry about the pan for kick drum conversion. A simple crossbar type conversion for the kick or even a side mount L bracket style like this will work:

    http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=189736
    Those do work pretty well. Billy Blast sells them too.

    Also, I believe there is a special tool you can buy to professionally install such grommets, but when screwed on by hand they seem to stay on well enough and not damage the shell anyhow.

    Leave a comment:


  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by frankzappa View Post
    Yes I removed the metal air vent grommet. I don't know, I would rather have something solid. I like the idea that you just plug in a jack in the airhole.

    Thanks for the info I will order that jack.
    The size of the air vent hole can vary by 1/16" or so depending on brand and model of drum. Many of the drums I have converted will fit the NYS221 deep panel jack after removing the grommet. Occasionally you may have to drill the hole out a tiny bit... the hole needs to be about 15/32" for that jack. If you are concerned about converting the drums back to acoustics there are threaded vent grommets that can replace the ones you remove and they will fit the hole you drill:

    http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...oducts_id=2274

    Leave a comment:


  • frankzappa
    replied
    Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
    You have to remove the metal air vent grommet from the drum shell to fit the 1/4" thick panel jack (NYS221)
    But you can also do it like this posted earlier in the thread:
    http://vdrums.com/forum/showpost.php...71&postcount=5
    Yes I removed the metal air vent grommet. I don't know, I would rather have something solid. I like the idea that you just plug in a jack in the airhole.

    Thanks for the info I will order that jack.

    Leave a comment:

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