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Drop-in Dual Zone Trigger Collaboration ChromeBoy/JmanWord

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  • fulrmr(Daniel)
    replied
    Originally posted by Jack Widow View Post
    Can you elaborate more with the panel jack disconnect thingies got picture or link because I don't have clue what those type of connectors are called nor where to buy them.
    Thanks
    There is a bunch of different designs, but some are called Bullet connectors, butt connector, slip on connectors.......
    http://www.electricalhub.com/heat-sh...FUrWKgodL2ivKg
    This is just the first link that pooped up when searching Google. I've never... bought from there. Hardware stores, lumberyards, radio shack, walmart....etc. all carry these......very easy to find.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jack Widow
    replied
    Originally posted by cheapthrill View Post
    I just use the standard deep panel jack with some disconnects myself. Nothing permanent, nothing to unsolder. Pop some threaded grommets in the breather holes like this, and you are back in purely acoustic business until you need the pans back in.
    Can you elaborate more with the panel jack disconnect thingies got picture or link because I don't have clue what those type of connectors are called nor where to buy them.
    Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • cheapthrill
    replied
    Originally posted by fulrmr(Daniel) View Post
    Nice. Makes it cleaner too, if you ask me, when the cable and jack isn't just hanging out the side of the shell.
    Absolutively!

    Leave a comment:


  • fulrmr(Daniel)
    replied
    Originally posted by cheapthrill View Post
    I just use the standard deep panel jack with some disconnects myself. Nothing permanent, nothing to unsolder. Pop some threaded grommets in the breather holes like this, and you are back in purely acoustic business until you need the pans back in.
    Nice. Makes it cleaner too, if you ask me, when the cable and jack isn't just hanging out the side of the shell.

    Leave a comment:


  • cheapthrill
    replied
    Originally posted by fulrmr(Daniel) View Post
    You could also use 1/4" jacks, the counterpart to that pic, and regular quick disconnects....this would keep you from having to use adapters for your stock 1/4" cables on every pad.
    I just use the standard deep panel jack with some disconnects myself. Nothing permanent, nothing to unsolder. Pop some threaded grommets in the breather holes like this, and you are back in purely acoustic business until you need the pans back in.

    Leave a comment:


  • fulrmr(Daniel)
    replied
    Originally posted by Jack Widow View Post
    So the cake pan design is way cool. So any reason not to use a 1/8th stereo mini jack so no holes need to be drilled in the shell and then just use like a 1/8th to stereo female 1/4" and enough of slack in the cable to lift the cake pan up. That way you could lift the cake pan out of the shell unplug the mini jack cable and no need for drilling a a shell mount jack.
    has any body thought about that or tried it.
    I'm not hipped on leaving the bottom heads off nor drilling thru the drumm shell and just wanna to know if the mini 1/8th to female TRS 1/4" conversion would work.
    Thanks
    I don't see any reason why you couldn't use 1/8" female jacks like this........

    for the initial build and adapters for pad cables.

    You could also use 1/4" jacks, the counterpart to that pic, and regular quick disconnects....this would keep you from having to use adapters for your stock 1/4" cables on every pad.

    female jack.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • Jack Widow
    replied
    So the cake pan design is way cool. So any reason not to use a 1/8th stereo mini jack so no holes need to be drilled in the shell and then just use like a 1/8th to stereo female 1/4" and enough of slack in the cable to lift the cake pan up. That way you could lift the cake pan out of the shell unplug the mini jack cable and no need for drilling a a shell mount jack.
    has any body thought about that or tried it.
    I'm not hipped on leaving the bottom heads off nor drilling thru the drumm shell and just wanna to know if the mini 1/8th to female TRS 1/4" conversion would work.
    Thanks
    Last edited by Jack Widow; 03-15-12, 06:10 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
    Wow ..... sure glad we didn't loose this entire thread ...
    glad to see you made it through the vdrums.com famine Dan

    Leave a comment:


  • fulrmr(Daniel)
    replied
    Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
    Wow ..... sure glad we didn't loose this entire thread ...
    meeeeee toooooooo.

    Leave a comment:


  • JmanWord
    replied
    Wow ..... sure glad we didn't loose this entire thread ...

    Leave a comment:


  • jammin777
    replied
    Hey Jman

    hey Jman, kinda late but great job on the cake pan drop ins. very inspiring, did you use 35mm piezos for the head and 27mm for the rim? and may i ask whare did you get your standoffs?
    the little GAS man has been tempting me.
    kinda thinking of doing conversion myself. possibly a pacific x7 7 piece kit.
    thanks to you and chromeboy for this awesome thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • r_cc_c
    replied
    Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
    The simple solution is don't use a pan for the kick ... I do not plan on changing anything on the kicks I've already built, they trigger perfect already. As far as triggering: the kick is only single zone, and the easiest of all to trigger pretty much...
    I recently discovered (from the Roland TD-20X Manual) that the bass drum input is actually dual zone. I tested it out and it rim is map to a different sound as the head. They way I see it is, the two sound are mapped to two different mic positions.

    I have seen picture posted here of how the Roland drum are constructed.
    But I have no idea of how their Bass drum is constructed. Where is the "RIM TRIGGER" placed? When playing normally using a bass drum pedal, how much head vs rim are sent to the module?

    I am currently using a TAMA CB90F beater with a piezo sandwiched in between. It only gives me one zone. I would like to be able to trigger both zone from the bass drum. I am thinking about putting a cake pan in the bass drum but that seem a lot of cake pan (17", 19" or 21"...not easy to find).

    Another possibility is to stick a separate piezo somewhere on the bass drum shell or even the hoop and using a splitter to combine with the beater trigger.

    Any insight into the Roland KD-140 Bass Drum will help.

    Thanks
    Rick

    Leave a comment:


  • r_cc_c
    replied
    Lesson Learnt

    I was busy building and have not visited the site for a while. Just want to share some of my experience.

    Number one problem, false trigger of RIM sound

    A few factor and mistake I made cause this to happen.

    1. I used cone trigger from Quatz which is great.

    I bought same size piezo for the rim trigger. That was a mistake. I switched to smaller size piezo and problem goes away.

    The reason for choosing same size piezo at the 1st place because Roland used the same size piezo for both head and rim trigger. I thought that will closely match The TD-20X internal setting. After a bit of struggle, I looked at how the Roland drum is constructed. The metal frame used for the head trigger is heavy duty. Vibration translate from head trigger platform to the rim trigger is very minimal compare to the DICP design. Roland also put in a lot of isolation from the bottom for the snare drum to avoid the vibration from the head translate to the snare stand and reflected back to the rim trigger.
    That is why Roland is so expensive.

    2. resonance of the cake pan, drum shell transfered to the rim trigger.

    This is recently discussed at this thread. Here is my setup and solution.

    I used Fat Daddo pan.

    I used

    http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

    to warp around the pan where it touches the shell. The reason is to protect the drum shell for future revert back to acoustic.

    I cut some circle from packaging sponge foam and stuff/lay them in the bottom of the pan in the drum shell all the way up to the bottom head.

    This silent the drum, pan and bottom head's resonance created a quieter playing experience.

    3. Large diameter drums has more false rim trigger than smaller drums.
    I converted 8, 10, 12, 14 (snare). The bigger the size, the more false trigger. But with the fix listed in 1 and 2. They are all fine.


    4. Cone trigger height adjustment and head tension

    This is what I finally go with. But other setting may work too.
    Roland recommended in their manual, hand tight the tension rod then add 2 full turn. I tried that, it is ok. But I have a drum dial. So...

    I tensioned the Toms to 60, snare to 70 similar to a real drum. The tension is even at all tension rods. This is necessary to protect your shell from deform.
    I found the tighter tension is necessary to buzz roll at near the rim on the snare drum.
    Otherwise, the head trigger may miss some of your action.

    After tension, I felt the cone poking up a little on the head. That is also needed to for the same reason.

    To me, that is ok. But compare to Roland, they seem to be able to have the head sit completely flat. However, the Roland I examined was tensioned pretty high.

    A few more note:

    Platform for the cone trigger:

    http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

    5" for the 10,12,14 drums. 3" for the 8" drum. I think 3" can work for all drum size.

    I wanted a round piece of plastic that I can drill easily. This works just fine.
    Look nice too.

    With all of the above, the TD-20X is all set the the factory default setting.
    I didn't change anything. No false trigger. I am hoping to buy a Roland snare to compare the result. But...I am having fun already. Save some money for another cymbal maybe.

    Thanks to the inventors here. I hope this help anyone who is doing this project. I am not done yet. Will share more down the road.

    Attached a picture here.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • cheapthrill
    replied
    Originally posted by frankzappa View Post
    I'm telling you, it's DEAD silent. My roland VH-11 hihat seems REALLY loud now in comparison. The only sound you can hear is the mesh head "chip", and it seems that it doesn't matter how hard you hit. However I tried insulating the other drums and it did have some effect but not as dramatic.

    Maybe it's not the tight fit that does it. I think it might be that I have a Roland mesh head on the snare and DDT double ply mesh heads on the other drums. Or my insulation was not good enough. Or the snare is less noisy because it's more shallow.

    What is weather stripping?
    Er, um... you are comparing a cymbal trigger to a mesh head trigger, which is like apples to oranges. I won't argue with you, but as to why it is as quiet as it is without dampening would be worth figuring out for you.

    Yes, the difference in heads does make a lot of difference in overall noise, but the resonating, ringing noise most experience with cake pans will occur regardless of the "mesh noise".

    Are you using full-size shells? Also, what are you using for insulation?

    Weather stripping

    Leave a comment:


  • frankzappa
    replied
    Originally posted by cheapthrill View Post
    Cool. When I built my DIPS last spring, I used vinyl strips/tape around the external circumference for a tight fit to keep the lips centered in the shell... turns out a bonus effect was that the pan was also quieter. I would suggest a type of weather-stripping, it is a good time of year for choices.

    No offense meant, but I don't believe that a dead silence is possible here just by simply having a tight fit along the wall of the pan, at least not without something to dampen the floor of the pan too. However, eliminating the vibration of the walls does go a long way and the overall noise present may be so negligible that it is easy to ignore, which is all that really matters in the end anyhow.
    I'm telling you, it's DEAD silent. My roland VH-11 hihat seems REALLY loud now in comparison. The only sound you can hear is the mesh head "chip", and it seems that it doesn't matter how hard you hit. However I tried insulating the other drums and it did have some effect but not as dramatic.

    Maybe it's not the tight fit that does it. I think it might be that I have a Roland mesh head on the snare and DDT double ply mesh heads on the other drums. Or my insulation was not good enough. Or the snare is less noisy because it's more shallow.

    What is weather stripping?

    Leave a comment:

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