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Drop-in Dual Zone Trigger Collaboration ChromeBoy/JmanWord

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  • allanjohn
    replied
    I'm using it as a tom, so PS is not an issue. Anyway, the foam is not in contact with the head, just filling the cavity and killing the sound, so I don't think it'll affect PS.
    Last edited by allanjohn; 03-17-10, 01:11 AM.

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  • cheapthrill
    replied
    Originally posted by allanjohn View Post
    Sorry, no pics because it looks bad, but a foam donut makes all the difference. I cut a 2" deep foam circle, removed about three inches from the middle for the cone and riser and stuffed it back and it cuts the noise by a good 60%. I'm using a thick black drum-tec head, so you can't see inside. This is the way to go though...
    Thanks allanjohn. Does the foam interfere with PS? It seems like it would, but maybe not.

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  • allanjohn
    replied
    Sorry, no pics because it looks bad, but a foam donut makes all the difference. I cut a 2" deep foam circle, removed about three inches from the middle for the cone and riser and stuffed it back and it cuts the noise by a good 60%. I'm using a thick black drum-tec head, so you can't see inside. This is the way to go though...

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  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by RavenMad View Post
    Just on the rimguard: I just bought some 5/16" black rubber vacuum hose (unbraided) from an auto parts shop and just run a slit lengthways, cut to length, glue the ends together and slip over the rim - works an absolute treat!! Doesn't slip on its own but is easy enough to slip on/off whenever I want.
    Yes, while on the subject of top rim rubber/guard:

    Some black rubber hose types from the archives:


    http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthre...DIY+rim+rubber

    And the clear vinyl I like to use as it is almost invisible, very stealth ... explained in this DIY parts sticky post:
    http://vdrums.com/forum/showpost.php...59&postcount=1

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  • RavenMad
    replied
    Just on the rimguard: I just bought some 5/16" black rubber vacuum hose (unbraided) from an auto parts shop and just run a slit lengthways, cut to length, glue the ends together and slip over the rim - works an absolute treat!! Doesn't slip on its own but is easy enough to slip on/off whenever I want.

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  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by allanjohn View Post
    This is a fantastic discovery and one potential application is a quick-coversion kit - for example a Rhythm Traveler. There's no reason why the jack can't be on the bottom of the dish, meaning you can drop the pan in, slip on the mesh head and voila. Take it out, put back the myler and you've got an acoustic again.
    Did I mention that I picked up a Rhythm Traveler kit this week?
    Yup, just like this:


    http://vdrums.com/forum/showpost.php...&postcount=109

    Oh and just a little side note: On the vinyl rim guard for the top rim.... I no longer use any type of adhesive to hold the rim guard to the top.... simply cut the piece of clear vinyl a couple inches longer than needed and overlap the extra as you see in those pics ... that holds it in place and makes for quick removal. I actually started doing my rim guards that way last year since it works great and makes it easy to change/replace them if they wear out...
    Last edited by JmanWord; 02-26-10, 10:37 PM.

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  • allanjohn
    replied
    This is a fantastic discovery and one potential application is a quick-coversion kit - for example a Rhythm Traveler. There's no reason why the jack can't be on the bottom of the dish, meaning you can drop the pan in, slip on the mesh head and voila. Take it out, put back the myler and you've got an acoustic again.
    Did I mention that I picked up a Rhythm Traveler kit this week?

    Leave a comment:


  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by cheapthrill View Post
    I am not implying that I deserve credit for this pan idea, but I will accept some of that praise for myself. After I was given an old deep dish pizza pan last summer, I noticed that a hoop fit over it perfectly, and I then realized that pans would make a great drop-in alternative. But I have been so preoccupied with my new home and schoolwork that I didn't have time or money to do anything with the idea... and then Jman and CB came along and posted this thread, almost like they were invading my brain! Of course it was all purely coincidental, and like I said before- great minds think alike! Do I sound bitter? I hope not. It is just that it really is a truly great idea and I had it first! Realistically, I am sure this has been done before somewhere and nobody bothered to mention it on this forum... til now! Thanks guys!

    What I am really grateful for is that they have located suppliers of pans that can accommodate about any shell out there. They did a lot of footwork on this concept and like they say, two heads are better than one (especially when they are on the same page!). Thanks to them, I already know where to look when I get around to converting my own kit with "our" pan idea.

    I am just glad that so many people can benefit from the idea... and have a better alternative to the Pearl drop-in triggers for a fraction of the cost. Go DIY team!
    Yup, I can verify that cheapthrill was working on the same idea. We keep in touch via email. After Chromeboy contacted me with the idea he had and decided to include me to develope it, cheapthrill and I had been exchanging emails on other things and I mentioned how another vdrum member had a great conversion idea and we were developing it and would post on the forum. I didn't go into details. After we posted cheapthrill shared about how he had been working on an almost identical idea even before Chomeboy discovered his cake pans. He showed me details of the Pizza pan fit he had already discovered for building pretty much the exact same idea before this cake pan thread got started..... Great minds do think alike .... well, not that my mind qualifies

    And I know I already had several baker supply links on my PC from several years back and I thought of trying something like this then.... never persued it since you can't just easily go out and physically compare most of the pans with drums, you have to order most sizes.

    And then doing a google search after working with Chromeboy's first prototype I found Hellfire's thread. Looking back on that thread the idea of cake pan sizes that fit specific drum head sizes was there already. We just never connected the dots and took it to stock acoustic drum kits:

    http://vdrums.dreamhosters.com/forum...ad.php?t=35324

    I remember thinking, yeah that's a very cool project building a professional pad from scratch..... but not of much interest to me personally since I like concentrating on A kit conversions.....

    Then by chance Chromeboy dropped a cake pan in an acoustic shell. You dropped a deep dish pan in a shell... Timing is funny too, as you mentioned that Pearl E-Pro.... that really gave this project more inspiration for me... I found a new zeal to develope this further after attending Winter NAMM 2010.... here we were developing a cool drop in conversion already, and Pearl releases the E-Pro.... I thought, hey we can build a better DIY trigger system than that!! ......

    At any rate, I get the feeling this Cake pan conversion is going to be around for a long time to come .... maybe the new wave in A to E conversions
    Last edited by JmanWord; 02-26-10, 11:41 PM.

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  • cheapthrill
    replied
    Originally posted by burnbabyburn View Post
    ...this is such a great idea, it's almost too good!
    I am not implying that I deserve credit for this pan idea, but I will accept some of that praise for myself. After I was given an old deep dish pizza pan last summer, I noticed that a hoop fit over it perfectly, and I then realized that pans would make a great drop-in alternative. But I have been so preoccupied with my new home and schoolwork that I didn't have time or money to do anything with the idea... and then Jman and CB came along and posted this thread, almost like they were invading my brain! Of course it was all purely coincidental, and like I said before- great minds think alike! Do I sound bitter? I hope not. It is just that it really is a truly great idea and I had it first! Realistically, I am sure this has been done before somewhere and nobody bothered to mention it on this forum... til now! Thanks guys!

    What I am really grateful for is that they have located suppliers of pans that can accommodate about any shell out there. They did a lot of footwork on this concept and like they say, two heads are better than one (especially when they are on the same page!). Thanks to them, I already know where to look when I get around to converting my own kit with "our" pan idea.

    I am just glad that so many people can benefit from the idea... and have a better alternative to the Pearl drop-in triggers for a fraction of the cost. Go DIY team!

    Leave a comment:


  • burnbabyburn
    replied
    Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
    Sorry I missed this post earlier.... thanks for the kudos to CB and me. The discovery CB made concerning how well the cake pans fit in acoustic drum shells, along with the fact that there is a size of pan available for virtually every acoustic tom and snare drum.... has made this an exciting find for building a universal E drum conversion and especially dual zone .... I think CB agrees, it is just too good not to share
    No problem Jman...this is such a great idea, it's almost too good! Can't wait to get started on some new DIY toms. Thanks.

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  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by burnbabyburn View Post
    Jman & ChromeBoy...all I can say is wow!!! You have done everyone at this forum a great service. I myself have just started tinkering with the DIY aspect of EDrums, and this will certainly make things better, and easier.
    Well done indeed!!! [Golf Clap]
    Now...where are those cake pans?
    Sorry I missed this post earlier.... thanks for the kudos to CB and me. The discovery CB made concerning how well the cake pans fit in acoustic drum shells, along with the fact that there is a size of pan available for virtually every acoustic tom and snare drum.... has made this an exciting find for building a universal E drum conversion and especially dual zone .... I think CB agrees, it is just too good not to share

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  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by cheapthrill View Post
    Cool vid, Jerry. They trigger like a gem. Is it just me, or are they a little quieter than before (acoustically, that is)?
    Dunno, they seem about the same to me ... One thing though I added the vinyl sheet on the inside bottom of the pan on the 16" ..... and man, you should have heard it before that...... way loud compared to the others... The mesh heads must play a part too .... for sure that 16" with Hart Magnum head needed something to kill off the Boing, Boing pot drum sound....

    Really, when you concider I kept the mylar heads on the bottoms and just have a little Mini emad muffler on the bottom head, these are pretty quiet... definitely no problem with the neighbors. You'll notice the rims are where you hear more shell resonance... but not too bad.

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  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by fulrmr(Daniel) View Post
    Very cool Jerry. Nice uplift for me as I have run into a snag on my build. Nothing with the conversion itself, but just the usual unexpected snafu's that come from never doing this particular kind of build before and trying to make several kits of different configurations at once.

    Thanks. I needed that.
    Dan, If you get stuck or just need a tip or 2 as you go send me an email. I had one full day of frustration on one of my toms .... really weird stuff, and I ended up ripping out piezos and starting over. It was a brand new piezo that I refused to believe could possibly be the problem..... I ended up starting over after trying all else I replaced it, the piezo had no signs at all of a problem cosmetically, but it turned out to be the problem, and it turned out OK after that.... And that happened at least twice on the pan conversions I worked on, bizaar as I have built soooooo many conversions with that almost never happening! And that can be a stumper because since it seldom happens to me.... like I say, I refused to believe the piezo could be the problem. I lost hours refusing to start over with a new piezo. Also, each one of these drums is a separate project. Do one at a time is my suggestion. Build one, put it in the kit, start testing and adjusting trigger parameters, and don't expect it to respond well to the parameter settings a stock Roland pad uses.... This is key.... Set the pad type to PD-105 or 105X or 125 or 125X .... then hit the drum head .... If the first thing that happens is you get a rimshot on the head, don't be surprised.... Go to the advanced trigger parameters .... Rim .... and lower the rimshot adjust setting... do buzz rolls on the head and just tap the head at different forces on different spots .... keep lowering the Rimshot adjust till no rim shots trigger off the head. Basic sensitivity, threshold and Rim gain will also need adjusting... I'll print you off a Trigger parameter sheet if you like ... not that your parameters will definitely be the same ... but it will give you an idea of how different from stock they may end up being...

    That is what I meant on the video by the Extra tweaking this conversion has required... but once you wrap your head around that and accept the fact that you will need to adjust each drum separately it goes much smoother... I came to the conclusion that the rims are generally hotter with this method than stock Roland pads .... but with the proper tweaking the end result is just as good.... J
    Last edited by JmanWord; 02-25-10, 09:10 PM.

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  • JmanWord
    replied
    Originally posted by ChromeBoy View Post
    Excellent video Jman! You must be feeling better. A little DIY project and a few hours behind the kit are "good medicine"... of course, the antibiotics probably dont hurt either
    2 things I notice right away; your rims seem to be picking up all the nuances that I had trouble with initially. I'm not using any rim guards and it looks like they may be a wise addition to a "DIP" installation. Also, that 16" tom seems to be working perfectly. That is awesome. I've been debating about building a fully field-removable/installable set of DIP's for my CX's using a wire "pig-tail" thru the vent hole rather than installing a 1/4" jack in the shell. I usually play them acoustically but have been thinking it might be nice to have the option to switch to "E" in a pinch. The 16" floor tom had been my primary concern. Not anymore!!
    Hey CB .... Yeah, 10 days on the antibiotics definitely helped

    Yes, the 16" as well as all the rest of the sizes have worked out very well. I use Log 2 instead of Linear on my 14" and up drums, it tends to even out the response on the outer head area at least IMO... but that is the same whether pan, crossbar, whatever with a center mounted piezo, just the nature of large snares and toms I think, but definitely excellent response and no reason to shy away from these sizes IMO.... I prefer my 14" snare over the smaller sizes, especially after playing this size and getting used to the response over the last 6 years or so...

    On that CX kit, I imagine you could go either way on the jack. The slick thing about the Pacific drums is the threaded air vent grommet (I think your CX has that too). That threaded grommet makes it very tempting to just mount the deep panel jack in the hole. I did that with the Kurillian kit since I already had those jacks installed. I have given it some thought though, and I think mounting the jack in the shell would work for switching back and forth from A to E. ..... In that case I would keep the wires with the quick disconnects short on the jack side. That way you could leave the jack in and just bundle or tape the jack wires to the jack body when the pan is removed for playing A style. I doubt the jack would make a significant change in drum tone... The deep panel jacks are not completely sealed/air tight so they will prolly let enough air pass through for venting. The new Pearl E-Pro kit has jacks permanently installed (Not that the E-Pro is something to gauge conversions by)
    But, yes, the In line jack with connectors that just slip through the vent grommet would definitely work so that you would have the kit completely unmodded for A play...

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  • fulrmr(Daniel)
    replied
    Very cool Jerry. Nice uplift for me as I have run into a snag on my build. Nothing with the conversion itself, but just the usual unexpected snafu's that come from never doing this particular kind of build before and trying to make several kits of different configurations at once.

    Thanks. I needed that.

    Leave a comment:

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