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Drop-in Dual Zone Trigger Collaboration ChromeBoy/JmanWord

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  • allanjohn
    replied
    Rob,
    To quieten the pan, head out to Spotlight and buy a sheet of adhesive-backed black felt. It's about $3 per sheet, and will be ample for a 13" drum. I have found the felt as effective as a 2" deep foam donut - and much less obvious. The other option would be that bumpy grey foam used in packaging, but i'm not sure where you'd find it.
    PS: I emailed your pan source and am waiting to hear back on post charges.

    Leave a comment:


  • rasoo
    replied
    Polarity wasn't the issue. And I am well aware of that diagram.
    In fact my snare had to have the opposite to that diagram to work, so there is something weird going on there.

    Anyway the good news is that the all new snare is a goer. PS and all.

    I am not using the Pearl tom as I was going to as I managed to get the 13" snare I already have modified using the pan method. Its noisier than it was previously but I have managed to muffle it slightly. The pans are damn noisy critters.

    Leave a comment:


  • cheapthrill
    replied
    Originally posted by rasoo View Post
    Thanks mate. I have made a completely new head sensor today for the pan, which I have not used as yet. I have done lots to isolate the head sensor and its come up well, so fingers crossed this one works!

    It will go in a 13" Tom to make a totally new snare. Its one of my Pearl Masters toms that I do not use.

    Ok, edit time... some searching threw up this post:

    http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showpost...69&postcount=4

    Which totally goes against what JmanWord has just mentioned. This is what I mean by conflicting info. There needs to be some parity on the issue.
    ROb, I don't have PS on my toms (since I use a TD-8) so I cannot comment on Racer's post, but I do get PS equally on my snare whether with a TRS cable or a mono cable.

    Since you say your doubled-up Pearl heads are identical to the Roland head, that is not the issue.

    You do seem to have the piezo specs reversed to what we have... though that wouldn't matter so much if just going mono with the head piezo for PS... well, perhaps it may affect PS just a little, since it is 27mm. Not sure about that really.

    Like Jmanword said, you want to make sure you have the polarity correct for a Roland module:

    Leave a comment:


  • twistedmellow
    replied
    I REMAIN DEFIANT!!!!!!!








    Oh, crap. I forgot - I just went and bought 2 of them today. You win, Allan.

    Leave a comment:


  • allanjohn
    replied
    Oh yes, one more thing. I'm using 1.5" deep pans and regular cones and have not had any triggering issues. I've got the platform about 5mm off the base of the pan. So for all those who have dismissed 1.5" pans as too low, give it a try (Ian was among the skeptics here, and I showed him the way).

    Leave a comment:


  • allanjohn
    replied
    Originally posted by twistedmellow View Post
    Show us a pic! I wanna see how it turned out. I know you've got a camera
    Your wish is my command: My very first built-from-scratch plumbo-baker-tom (with recycled hoops and lugs, pardon the rust).
    Oh, and it's a magic picture - click on it and it grows!

    Leave a comment:


  • rasoo
    replied
    Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
    Positional Sensing on the snare head only requires one piezo, the head piezo. You may want to try plugging in a Mono/TS cable for the snare to start your trouble shooting. This narrows down the equation since you eliminate the possibility of triggering the rim zone. That way you can test just the PS of the head zone. You have probably read about reversing the polarity of the piezos. The wiring diagram by Beatnik shows the Roland style wiring reversed compared to other brands, but that depends on the piezo polarity. I have encountered some piezos that needed the wires reversed and some not for PS. The best thing to do is use alligator clips and test both ways. I only mention the wiring because that is NO 1 on the PS troubleshooting list.

    One thing about the drop in pan method with the rim piezo below the platform in the pan..... the rim piezo can be very sensitive and can trigger from a head shot if the parameters are not tweaked correctly. That is why I would test the head independently first. Get the head response adjusted. Then plug in with a TRS cable and tweak the edge parameters. Just my 2 cents.... I prefer 35MM head piezos with the cones on Roland modules personally....

    OH and Yes PS works fine on my Drop in Pan conversions as well as with my crossbar conversions.... Cheapthrill and allanjohn both have PS working correctly on the pan conversions and Chromeboy also .... So it is definitely doable. J
    Thanks mate. I have made a completely new head sensor today for the pan, which I have not used as yet. I have done lots to isolate the head sensor and its come up well, so fingers crossed this one works!

    It will go in a 13" Tom to make a totally new snare. Its one of my Pearl Masters toms that I do not use.

    Ok, edit time... some searching threw up this post:

    http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showpost...69&postcount=4

    Which totally goes against what JmanWord has just mentioned. This is what I mean by conflicting info. There needs to be some parity on the issue.
    Last edited by rasoo; 08-17-10, 12:13 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • twistedmellow
    replied
    Originally posted by allanjohn View Post
    Knocked the first one off soon after I got the pipe and it worked a treat. In fact, I fitted it to my Rhythm Traveler kit and used it for a gig on the Sunshine Coast hinterland. I've removed the 14" tom and replaced it with a 12" external triggers tom, and have two 10" drop-in toms on the bass - one authentic and the other PVC pipe with black wrap.
    (And yes, I repeated your trick, Ian, mounting the lugs a fraction too high - but still low enough to get lots of head tension. Another 5mm lower would have been perfect, so I've learned for the second one.
    Show us a pic! I wanna see how it turned out. I know you've got a camera

    Leave a comment:


  • JmanWord
    replied
    Positional Sensing on the snare head only requires one piezo, the head piezo. You may want to try plugging in a Mono/TS cable for the snare to start your trouble shooting. This narrows down the equation since you eliminate the possibility of triggering the rim zone. That way you can test just the PS of the head zone. You have probably read about reversing the polarity of the piezos. The wiring diagram by Beatnik shows the Roland style wiring reversed compared to other brands, but that depends on the piezo polarity. I have encountered some piezos that needed the wires reversed and some not for PS. The best thing to do is use alligator clips and test both ways. I only mention the wiring because that is NO 1 on the PS troubleshooting list.

    One thing about the drop in pan method with the rim piezo below the platform in the pan..... the rim piezo can be very sensitive and can trigger from a head shot if the parameters are not tweaked correctly. That is why I would test the head independently first. Get the head response adjusted. Then plug in with a TRS cable and tweak the edge parameters. Just my 2 cents.... I prefer 35MM head piezos with the cones on Roland modules personally....

    OH and Yes PS works fine on my Drop in Pan conversions as well as with my crossbar conversions.... Cheapthrill and allanjohn both have PS working correctly on the pan conversions and Chromeboy also .... So it is definitely doable. J
    Last edited by JmanWord; 08-16-10, 10:59 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • allanjohn
    replied
    Originally posted by twistedmellow View Post
    And speaking of DIY, how'd you go with that PVC pipe?
    Knocked the first one off soon after I got the pipe and it worked a treat. In fact, I fitted it to my Rhythm Traveler kit and used it for a gig on the Sunshine Coast hinterland. I've removed the 14" tom and replaced it with a 12" external triggers tom, and have two 10" drop-in toms on the bass - one authentic and the other PVC pipe with black wrap.
    (And yes, I repeated your trick, Ian, mounting the lugs a fraction too high - but still low enough to get lots of head tension. Another 5mm lower would have been perfect, so I've learned for the second one.

    Leave a comment:


  • twistedmellow
    replied
    Long time no post, Allan!

    And speaking of DIY, how'd you go with that PVC pipe?

    Leave a comment:


  • allanjohn
    replied
    Rob,
    If you'd like to bring your module over some time, you can try a couple of my snares and see if they give you PS. That would rule out the module. Allan

    Leave a comment:


  • rasoo
    replied
    Thanks for the reply mate.

    I have a Roland head on my 12" snare. It responds EXACTLY the same as my Dual ply Pearl mesh head (yes... dual ply, I use 2 of them back to back on the 13" snare)
    Both the 12' snare and the 13" snare behave in exactly the same manner, no matter what head I am using.

    With regard to the operation, yeah its strange.
    Looking at the the meter on the screen, the one that tells you where the module thinks the hit is situated, on strong centre hits the meter and sound go to an outer hit. If I do a soft buzz roll and move it from outer edge to inner head and back, it picks up fine.

    Now here is where I have some conflicting info. I was always under the impression that there needed to be some crosstalking of sensors in order for PS to work. I mentioned this ages ago and it was said that the head piezo cannot be completely isolated. So, if I indeed do have to totally isolate the head trigger I will do so and see how that goes.
    So, in summary the only thing that is a constant between the 2 drums is the head mounting method... even though they are different to each other.

    I am the other way around with regard to trigger sizes... that could also have something to do with it. The rim trigger is a larger 35mm and the head is 27mm (the standard one was a 35mm on the cone but I swapped it out for a 27mm when I had the cones with the Trigger iO)

    Leave a comment:


  • cheapthrill
    replied
    I am using DIP triggers with a TD-8 and getting great triggering and I am very pleased with the PS too. However, I've tried my triggers with a TD-20 and they respond a little better to it, most notably the cross-stick sound.

    Originally posted by rasoo View Post
    I am struggling to get PS working on my TD12. I have tried all sorts of things, from various tips off here and no dice.
    I can get it to work on soft rolls but of full hit just goes straight to the outside setting... and its slow to respond.
    So let me make sure I understand you... you get PS working from center to rim with softer hits, but with a stronger hit it goes to the outside? By "outside", do you mean like you hit towards the center but it sounds more like a hit closer to the edge?

    My first thought is that you need more isolation between the piezos. It really helps to have the head piezo platform "floating" as much as possible.

    Secondly, those Pearl mesh heads are not the best for PS. I know you go against the majority here and prefer them, but they have been known to not trigger so well with dual-trigger setups on a Roland module. Not saying it is impossible, but I do feel you are a little more at a disadvantage by using those heads.

    Originally posted by rasoo View Post
    Now this is the exact same on 2 completely different setups.... I am using a Quartz cone. The first one had a faulty piezo, which I replaced with a new one but still the same. What size piezo are you using for your rim sensor?
    I personally am using a 35mm for the head and a 27mm for the rim; DIYed my own cones.

    I have only heard of one person say that they couldn't get PS with a quartz cone on TD-20/12 so far (as of the past week actually) but many have said that they can get it fine. Not really sure what to think about that now.

    Originally posted by rasoo View Post
    And another thing... what Roland preset pad type do you use, with settings. Because there are 4 or 5 that can use PS, keen to know what people are using.
    I believe you want to use a PD-125 setting, as the DIP trigger mimics the center-mounted rim piezo like that of the PD-125.

    Leave a comment:


  • rasoo
    replied
    Guys, I am interested to know if anyone has a version of this method with FULLY WORKING positional sensing?

    I am struggling to get PS working on my TD12. I have tried all sorts of things, from various tips off here and no dice.
    I can get it to work on soft rolls but of full hit just goes straight to the outside setting... and its slow to respond.
    Now this is the exact same on 2 completely different setups.... I am using a Quartz cone. The first one had a faulty piezo, which I replaced with a new one but still the same. What size piezo are you using for your rim sensor?
    I have a new pan now to suit the 13" snare, but before I make the bits I am interested to know of anyone's success.

    And another thing... what Roland preset pad type do you use, with settings. Because there are 4 or 5 that can use PS, keen to know what people are using.

    Edit: Oh and for my Aussie mates I have found a local distributor of Fat Daddio's Aluminium cake tins... in all sizes. I ordered a pan, it arrived and I found the sticker on it!! Bonus!

    http://www.bakeshack.com.au

    Leave a comment:

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