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Concept Thread for Roland Optical Hi-Hat Controller

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  • Concept Thread for Roland Optical Hi-Hat Controller

    I am starting this Research and Development thread in the hopes that we can achieve a working result for an Optical Hi-hat Controller for a Roland Module.

    I am getting mixed reviews on using a photoresistor to take the place of the sliding potentiometers that many people have had success with. Here is the schematic for my latest idea using the photoresistor. If anyone with a Roland Module would care to try it and report back, I would greatly appreciate it. Or if you see a flaw in my thinking feel free to speak up.

    The voltage from the module is used to open the battery circuit when the module is turned on. That should allow the battery to last for a long time. Provided you turn off the module when you aren't using it.

    Attached Files
    Last edited by jman 31; 05-19-09, 12:10 PM.
    sigpic JerEd Systems, LED drum triggers

  • #2
    I'm going to play devils advocate for this post. I hope you don't mind.

    What benefit is there to the optical controller as oppose to a slide or rotary pot? I know that a slide or rotary will wear out faster then an optical set-up, but other than that what is the up side to an optical set-up?
    alesisDRUMMER.com

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    • #3
      That's pretty much it. No moving electrical parts. And I need something to do.

      It also make for a simple and effective way to convert an acoustic hat without doing any modifications to it besides what is needed to dampen the sound.
      Last edited by jman 31; 05-19-09, 11:07 AM.
      sigpic JerEd Systems, LED drum triggers

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      • #4
        Great threat Jman.

        I'm looking forward to see the outcome of it. It seems a wonderful idea. Let's hear what other people have to say about this.

        Cheers

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hellfire View Post
          I'm going to play devils advocate for this post. I hope you don't mind.

          What benefit is there to the optical controller as oppose to a slide or rotary pot? I know that a slide or rotary will wear out faster then an optical set-up, but other than that what is the up side to an optical set-up?
          I think you answered your own question . In my setup for instance, electrical/electronic is always preferable over mechanical. Of course YMMV. Looking forward to seeing how this goes. I think the hihat is the weak point of most electronic kits. Maybe something better can be "invented".

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by John F View Post
            I think you answered your own question . In my setup for instance, electrical/electronic is always preferable over mechanical. Of course YMMV. Looking forward to seeing how this goes. I think the hihat is the weak point of most electronic kits. Maybe something better can be "invented".
            Maybe... How about using these:

            SoftPot or FSR Hi-Hat Controller!
            alesisDRUMMER.com

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Hellfire View Post
              Maybe... How about using these:

              SoftPot or FSR Hi-Hat Controller!
              Aren't your concept drawings shown in the link essentially the same as the Roland HH pedal? FD8, for instance? I'm just looking for something that minimizes the moving parts.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jman 31 View Post
                I am starting this Research and Development thread in the hopes that we can achieve a working result for an Optical Hi-hat Controller for a Roland Module.

                I am getting mixed reviews on using a photoresistor to take the place of the sliding potentiometers that many people have had success with. Here is the schematic for my latest idea using the photoresistor. If anyone with a Roland Module would care to try it and report back, I would greatly appreciate it. Or if you see a flaw in my thinking feel free to speak up.

                The voltage from the module is used to open the battery circuit when the module is turned on. That should allow the battery to last for a long time. Provided you turn off the module when you aren't using it.

                The problem with this circuit is that the 3.2 volts you show coming from the Roland module is not a "stiff" 3.2 volts. If you hook up the circuit you've shown to the Roland module, the voltage will drop to about half of what you think.

                I took some measurements on my TD3 and here's what I found. It's very likely that this will apply to other Roland modules as well because most likely the HH interface hardware is reused and any differences among the various models are in software algorithms. No, I don't work for Roland, but I've designed electronic products for long enough to know that this is generally the case .

                Voltage out of TD3 (foot pedal not plugged in) = 3.26 V
                Voltage at foot pedal (pedal plugged in/full up) = 2.55 V
                Voltage at foot pedal (pedal plugged in/full down) = 5 millivolts
                Pedal resistance (full up) = 20.2 kohms
                Pedal resistance (full down) = 7.4 ohms

                From these measurements the TD3 looks like a 3.26 volt source with a 5.6 kohm series resistor, so if you hook up your circuit as shown and assuming that your photoresistor value is large compared to the 4.7k resistor, the voltage at the top of the photoresistor will be set by the voltage divider made up of the internal 5.6k resistor and the 4.7k resistor plus the base-emitter drop of the transistor, and will be somewhere around 1/2 the original voltage.
                Last edited by John F; 05-20-09, 12:44 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by John F View Post
                  Aren't your concept drawings shown in the link essentially the same as the Roland HH pedal? FD8, for instance? I'm just looking for something that minimizes the moving parts.
                  Yes, but remember those are just concept drawings. You could mount the FSR between the two hi-hat cymbals in the same way as the optical Hi-hat system. Assuming the module can supply the power (that's a big if, because I have not gotten that far yet), there really isn't that much to a FSR hi-hat controller. Mount the FSR on a solid surface (like the bottom hat, or self contained like the optical), and using a spring or foam coupling for the top hat to press on. That's pretty much it. It is the fewest parts solution that I've seen so far.

                  As for the optical controller I look forward to what you come up with jman 31.
                  Last edited by Hellfire; 05-20-09, 10:18 AM. Reason: added more
                  alesisDRUMMER.com

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hellfire View Post
                    Yes, but remember those are just concept drawings. You could mount the FSR between the two hi-hat cymbals in the same way as the optical Hi-hat system. Assuming the module can supply the power (that's a big if, because I have not gotten that far yet), there really isn't that much to a FSR hi-hat controller. Mount the FSR on a solid surface (like the bottom hat, or self contained like the optical), and using a spring or foam coupling for the top hat to press on. That's pretty much it. It is the fewest parts solution that I've seen so far.

                    As for the optical controller I look forward to what you come up with jman 31.
                    Great idea. I like the idea of the cymbals pressing together on the FSR rather than the foot pedal. And I think the (Roland) module can supply the power to the FSR. Have a look at my previous post where I've got measurements and have calculated what the voltage source inside the Roland controller must look like.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hellfire View Post
                      Yes, but remember those are just concept drawings. You could mount the FSR between the two hi-hat cymbals in the same way as the optical Hi-hat system. Assuming the module can supply the power (that's a big if, because I have not gotten that far yet), there really isn't that much to a FSR hi-hat controller. Mount the FSR on a solid surface (like the bottom hat, or self contained like the optical), and using a spring or foam coupling for the top hat to press on. That's pretty much it. It is the fewest parts solution that I've seen so far.

                      As for the optical controller I look forward to what you come up with jman 31.
                      Originally posted by John F View Post
                      Great idea. I like the idea of the cymbals pressing together on the FSR rather than the foot pedal. And I think the (Roland) module can supply the power to the FSR. Have a look at my previous post where I've got measurements and have calculated what the voltage source inside the Roland controller must look like.
                      Isn't this basically what you're talking about? http://www.musiciansnearyou.com/Hi-Hat-Kt-4-sale.html This picture looks more like some sort of switch (for the Alesis) but the ones I have look almost identicle to the FSR pics that wre posted.
                      8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
                      http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

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                      • #12
                        Excuse my ignorance, but what do Roland use for their VH-12 setup? It looks like they've got some kind of assembly underneath the bottom hat, would that be a rotary pot design?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fulrmr(Daniel) View Post
                          Isn't this basically what you're talking about? http://www.musiciansnearyou.com/Hi-Hat-Kt-4-sale.html This picture looks more like some sort of switch (for the Alesis) but the ones I have look almost identicle to the FSR pics that wre posted.
                          I always thought that guy might be using FSR's and you just confirmed it for me.

                          So, I guess the FSR method works pretty easily then (if he is using an FSR) Can you post a picture of the inside of what you are talking about? (please use the topic below if you are going to post further about FSRs or softpots)

                          jman 31, I want to apologize for hijacking your topic. It was not my intension to do this. I ask that if you want to talk about the FSR or SoftPot concept please do so in this topic

                          http://vdrums.com/forum/showthread.p...322#post393322
                          Last edited by Hellfire; 05-20-09, 02:49 PM. Reason: added more
                          alesisDRUMMER.com

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                          • #14
                            What about a reflective laser range sensor design...

                            No contact and no moving parts.
                            Jack

                            Sabre's Album

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sabre View Post
                              What about a reflective laser range sensor design...

                              No contact and no moving parts.
                              interesting.
                              8 piece DIY Acrylic, 2x2Box DrumIt5, Gen16 4xDCP, DIY Acrylic&Gen16 Conversions, Sleishman Twin-QuadSteele hybrid, Gibraltar&DrumFrame rack, DW9502LB, Midi Knights Pro Lighting
                              http://www.airbrushartists.org/DreamscapeAirbrushRealm

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