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  • #16
    Not Working as hoped :-(

    Originally posted by racer52 View Post
    I was impressed with Poco Askews internal Hi-Hat controller:
    http://vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46103

    .. I also read on megadrum forum about people using an optical hi-Hat controller mounted at the foot pedal of the hi-hat:
    http://www.megadrum.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=422

    ..... let that stew for a few days.

    How about an optical mounted like Poco's resistor unit??? hmmm..

    I have just completed the basic mechanical portion of the controller (the part that moves up and down)

    I have posted pics at edrumforum.com: ...but you have to join (free) to see...
    http://edrumforum.com/album.php?albumid=15

    YouTube demo video at:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZQBkX4SIJs
    having technical problems.

    I seem to not have all the facts on how the HH works on the TD20

    I have the control circuit built - but it does not control the TD-20

    I get a crackly sound when striking a piezo hooked to the HH cymbal input
    (I have a single piezo hooked to Tip and Sleeve on this input)

    with my circuit disconnected the HH cymbal piezo triggers a sizzle HH sound (as if the cymbals are just barely touching)

    Does anybody know what is in a VH12 hihat or what it is that Roland HH Control is looking for???

    I measure 3.5V (open circuit) form the TD20 HH control line on both TIP and RING leads. Measured on the cable, at the end that would plug into the Hi hat.

    This voltage seems to power the optical controller but it is a very small signal at the Emitter of the Photo Receptor, ie: 0.0 to 0.4 volts / fully blocked light source to open light source.

    I get -100 as the "HH Offset" in the TD 20 no matter if the light is blocked or unblocked at the LED Receptor


    ************* UPDATE ON CIRCUIT OPERATION ***********

    GOOD NEWS...... The circuit and the pluger work as they are designed.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UJcKxX7W50
    Bad news is they don't seem to control the TD20.. at least I have not figured out how to make it work with the TD20 yet.


    I hooked a 6 volt battery to the Ring and Sleeve inputs of the circuit. I get a solid 0-5 volt signal out the diode cathode lead (the lead to the Tip of the jack). this is on the bench, with the circuit not connected to the drum module.
    Last edited by racer52; 02-20-09, 10:57 PM. Reason: added offset data
    TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
    .
    Psalm 150
    had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
    YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
    Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

    Comment


    • #17
      I can't really answer your question as I only have the info on line to go by, but if you can, post up some pics of your circuit so we can see what you are trying to do.

      Here is a quick PCB I threw together. See what you think.
      Attached Files
      sigpic JerEd Systems, LED drum triggers

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by jman 31 View Post
        I can't really answer your question as I only have the info on line to go by, but if you can, post up some pics of your circuit so we can see what you are trying to do.

        Here is a quick PCB I threw together. See what you think.
        Wow - wish I could build this as fast as you whipped that up!

        you are using the same circuit I am. I'll post a pic of the prototype..it ain't pretty


        A couple of thoughts on the PCB..

        the led and the receptor both have thier working ends in the same axis as the leg leads (at least the ones I have do). When the legs are mounted in the board, they will need to be bent 90 degress so that the 'tops' of the cases can point at each other.

        Using my plunger design the flag/light barrier needs enough clearance from the board to keep from hitting it.
        TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
        .
        Psalm 150
        had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
        YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
        Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

        Comment


        • #19
          How much room do you need between the leads of the LED and the reciever (in terms of inches or mm) to get the desired bend?

          Also, I'm not sure what you meant about "their working ends on the same axis as the leg leads". Could you clarify that for me? Are you meaning that they are both pointing up and need to be bent to the side, pointing at each other?
          sigpic JerEd Systems, LED drum triggers

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by jman 31 View Post
            How much room do you need between the leads of the LED and the reciever (in terms of inches or mm) to get the desired bend?

            Also, I'm not sure what you meant about "their working ends on the same axis as the leg leads". Could you clarify that for me? Are you meaning that they are both pointing up and need to be bent to the side, pointing at each other?

            Yes pointing at each other.. here is the pic

            more pics here:
            http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=110
            TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
            .
            Psalm 150
            had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
            YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
            Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

            Comment


            • #21
              I see. Well suggestions for the board would be either to make two boards connected by wires the wrap around the pvc, or use some stand offs and have the board in one piece, but with a space between it and the pvc pipe and flag so the components actually face toward the pvc. flag would actually move between the board and the pvc pipe. I'll sketch up what I mean tomorrow. I'm headed off to catch some zzzzzz's. Good luck with it.

              Jman
              sigpic JerEd Systems, LED drum triggers

              Comment


              • #22
                So it works ...How do I use it?

                The current status of this project is that the plunger/controller circuit actually does work. VERY WELL.

                I applied 6 volts (+) (from a lantern battery) to the Ring, and ground (-)to the Sleeve inputs of the circuit. This produced a 5 volt output on the tip lead of the circuit. Pressing the plunger gradually and smoothly, dropped the output at the Tip circuit to 0 volts.
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UJcKxX7W50

                OK, so now I have this controller that does not seem to work the same as a VH12 Hi-Hat.

                I noticed on my TD20 Drum Module that the trigger pad can be selected to any number of pad types for the Hi-Hat.

                Does anyone know which of the Roland Hi-Hats I should try setting the TD20 module to. I imagine that one of the non VH12 setting might work with this controller.

                Well, actually there seems to be only two Hi hat selections in the TD20 - VH11 or VH12. The other selections look like drum pads. Neither the VH11 nor VH12 settings work with this controller.
                Last edited by racer52; 02-20-09, 10:56 PM.
                TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
                .
                Psalm 150
                had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
                YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
                Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by racer52 View Post
                  OK, so now I have this controller that does not seem to work the same as a VH12 Hi-Hat.

                  I noticed on my TD20 Drum Module that the trigger pad can be selected to any number of pad types for the Hi-Hat.

                  Does anyone know which of the Roland Hi-Hats I should try setting the TD20 module to. I imagine that one of the non VH12 setting might work with this controller.
                  You should prolly try VH11/FD. Also set CCMax to 127, that will give you the extra tight HH sound when closing the HH the tightest, in addition to the other transitions. Trigger parameters can be set for your top HH cymbal also.

                  For callibrating the HH... with my setup as well as Hart Dynamics Epedal II... when on the HH calibration screen, you simply loosen the top cymbals clutch wing nut, let the cymbal rest on the bottom hat. press your foot down until the line falls in between the arrows, and tighten the wingnut.

                  Hopefully yours will work that way... really the main dif between VH-11 and VH-12 is the resistance built into the pedal controllers.... it wouldn't hurt to try yours with both VH-11 and VH-12 HH setup.

                  With a cable adapter I built for my FD-7 based moving HH stand I can use VH-12 setup... not really a big deal either way though... VH11/FD works the same if CC Max is raised to 127.
                  I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
                  Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by one2many View Post
                    Now, would the laser this design (when you put all the electrics in) allow for levels of hi-hat sound or just the standard open close (my module only supports open closed half open so I don't need a linear levels(think that is the right way to say it))

                    well..... I thought that it would be a variable sound control. I guess that depends on the drum module. I do not know how the 3 level circuits work. My guess is that they use a switch??? I really can't say if this would work for you or not.

                    As it is, I can't make it work for my drum module..although the circuit works

                    Maybe someone else can answer for you
                    TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
                    .
                    Psalm 150
                    had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
                    YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
                    Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Thurston View Post
                      racer-
                      I've been following this from Poco's design on, great to see you making so much progress! The youtube video was very well done. I'm looking forward to seeing the optical components installed. Does the spring you add make it noticably harder to close the hats? Good luck with the build and please keep us updated!

                      I posted a couple of pics.. video to follow in a few days. The spring does not add any noticable tension. It only needs to be strong enough to hold up the plastic parts anyway. this one is overkill, but still works fine - actually helps my old, weak , HiHat stand.
                      TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
                      .
                      Psalm 150
                      had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
                      YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
                      Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JmanWord View Post
                        You should prolly try VH11/FD. Also set CCMax to 127, that will give you the extra tight HH sound when closing the HH the tightest, in addition to the other transitions. Trigger parameters can be set for your top HH cymbal also..... it wouldn't hurt to try yours with both VH-11 and VH-12 HH setup.

                        With a cable adapter I built for my FD-7 based moving HH stand I can use VH-12 setup... not really a big deal either way though... VH11/FD works the same if CC Max is raised to 127.

                        I get the feeling I am leaving something out on this build to make it work with a TD20.... but I'll try messing with setup some more tomorrow
                        TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
                        .
                        Psalm 150
                        had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
                        YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
                        Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Megadrum Hi Hat Controller

                          I just wanted to clarify a few points, least they get lost in all this troubleshooting.


                          This circuit was designed for a Megadrum Hi-Hat Control.. It works as such.
                          http://www.megadrum.info/forums/


                          This Megadrum design was adapted by me into an internal / hidden Hi-Hat Controller assembly. That works also.
                          http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=110
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZQBkX4SIJs
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UJcKxX7W50


                          The real gain at this point is that this is an easy, inexpensive, DIY for an internal Hi-Hat Controller for the Megadrum.... I just don't have a Megadrum,

                          Even dmitri from Megadrum stated in his posts that this circuit was for the Megadrum, and that he did not know if it would work on other mudules.

                          So you Megadrum users give it a build.

                          As for my application, I am still working on what it needs for the Roland TD20.
                          I found that the original circuit design by 'admir' http://www.edrum.info/hihat.html
                          used a photo resistor, not a photo transister.
                          dmitir changed the design due to lag he was expierencing with the photo-resistor.

                          I am going to next try admir's design. If it controls the TD20, I will then look to see if there are faster working photoresistors on the market now.

                          I have already tested a photo-resistor with an ohm meter and a simple, bright white LED shinning on the 'photocell' (photocell is what it was called at Radio Shack). The resistance changes with just the LED light while no power is applied to the photo-resistor.
                          Last edited by racer52; 02-20-09, 10:55 PM.
                          TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
                          .
                          Psalm 150
                          had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
                          YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
                          Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            racer-
                            I'm working on building one of these now. I have the PVC, electronics, etc and am planning out the dimensions of everything based on my hihat shapes and clearances. I'm getting ready to start cutting and soldering but I have a couple of questions:

                            I'm planning on designing the flag so that there is 1/8" of travel between open hats and closed hats. This is what I measured, but it seems like it might be a bit small. What did you use for this distance?

                            Also, I haven't built the circuit yet and was wondering if you could tell me how long the flag had to be before your voltage dropped to zero? That is, as you close the hats, how far out from the outside surface of the outside PVC does the flag extend at the height of the LED when the oscilloscope gets a reading of zero volts?

                            I am using Megadrum and will let you know how it works with this once it is all built (might be a few days).

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Thurston View Post
                              racer-.... I have a couple of questions:

                              I'm planning on designing the flag so that there is 1/8" of travel between open hats and closed hats. This is what I measured, but it seems like it might be a bit small. What did you use for this distance?

                              Also, I haven't built the circuit yet and was wondering if you could tell me how long the flag had to be before your voltage dropped to zero? That is, as you close the hats, how far out from the outside surface of the outside PVC does the flag extend at the height of the LED when the oscilloscope gets a reading of zero volts?

                              I am using Megadrum and will let you know how it works with this once it is all built (might be a few days).

                              my output votage ran from 5v max/full open to Zero/full light blocked.
                              the orientation of the LED and receptor makes a difference on total voltage output- the more they are out of alignment, the less total available output there is, as the receptor is not receiving full light. Also the further apart they are, the less total voltage produced.

                              as long as there is any of the receptor to LED area exposed there will be some voltage produced. you may need to try a few different flags to see which suits your needs best.

                              changing how steep a slope your flag has, changes how fast the light gets cut off.

                              I made two flags - one at 10mm of travel (to total light block) the other at 14mm of travel (slower ramp) . That said, I do not have a megadrum to test it on so I do not know what is the 'best'.. the flags are so easy to make and swap out. the flag needs to extend beyond the receptor line of sight by at least 1/16-3/32" to be sure all light is blocked. it is the angle of the ramp that you need to be changing

                              does that make sense??

                              you can also fine tune overall position relative to your HH cymbals by using washers on top of the flag and under the base, to adjust the preset compression of the flag plunger
                              Last edited by racer52; 03-05-09, 02:06 PM.
                              TD-20 (non expanded), acoustic look DIY a to e conversion - some cake pan/ some crossbar method. DIY cymbals, VH-12 :-)
                              .
                              Psalm 150
                              had the best times with this band https://www.facebook.com/SaintHooliganMusic
                              YouTube video postings: https://www.youtube.com/user/racer52online/videos
                              Vdrums Photo Albums: http://www.vdrums.com/member/26923-racer52/media

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by racer52 View Post
                                I made two flags - one at 10mm of travel (to total light block) the other at 14mm of travel (slower ramp) . That said, I do not have a megadrum to test it on so I do not know what is the 'best'.. the flags are so easy to make and swap out. the flag needs to extend beyond the receptor line of sight by at least 1/16-3/32" to be sure all light is blocked. it is the angle of the ramp that you need to be changing

                                does that make sense??
                                Yes it does make sense. I guess I will have to figure out a way to change out flags before permanently securing it, but at least this gives me an idea of where to start. I am extremely excited to get this put together.
                                Originally posted by racer52 View Post
                                you can also fine tune overall position relative to your HH cymbals by using washers on top of the flag and under the base, to adjust the preset compression of the flag plunger
                                I'm going to be securing the upper PVC piece to the top hihat with the existing nut so that it always moves with the top hihat. That way I can adjust the pedal the same way I would with regular hihats. I also won't need the spring since the upper pvc will ride with the shaft.

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