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inconsistent triggering with UFO cones? Please help

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  • inconsistent triggering with UFO cones? Please help

    I'm nearing the end of my DIY build but I'm stuck on the darn triggers. I'm using the Beatnik crossbar design with UFO cones. I've tried every cone hieght imaginable as well as head tension and even 1 and 2 pieces of 3M tape under the piezo and still have inconsistent triggering. I can do buzz rolls with very consistent triggering and they sound pretty good. However, when I hit hard on the drum I get either a good trigger, double triggering, or no trigger. This leads me to believe its the UFO cones and type of material they're made of which seems to be more rubbery than foam. Also when I hit hard on the drum I can see the tip of the cone shift a few 1/16" to the left and right which I dont think should happen. It seems that a good foam should stay in place. Has anyone had this problem? Should I ditch the UFO cones and order some Poron foam from McCarr? Please help cause its driving me insane. Thanks.

  • #2
    I've used UFO cones for 18 months with no issues at all. Could it be your crossbar is not mounted firmly enough?
    . digitalDrummer
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    • #3
      I'm sure its held in place firmly. Its attached with 4 screws and 4 nylon lock nuts. My problem is mainly on my 12" drums.

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      • #4
        Poron is considered the best for cones...I have some that nobody wants so send me a PM and you can buy one to try...save you the hassle of buying the sheets and cutting them yourself. I need to get rid of them.
        chris :D

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        • #5
          I wish I had known sooner, I've already placed an order with mcmaster. Im hoping the poron foam will work better than the ufo cones. It seems really popular among the forum and closely resembles the roland cones so I think it should do the job. I don't understand why I can't get mine to trigger properly. They've appeared to work well for others.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by produc3d View Post
            I wish I had known sooner, I've already placed an order with mcmaster. Im hoping the poron foam will work better than the ufo cones. It seems really popular among the forum and closely resembles the roland cones so I think it should do the job. I don't understand why I can't get mine to trigger properly. They've appeared to work well for others.
            I have never tried a UFO...I see he has A and B stock or something similar...maybe you got the latter? I have excellent results with Poron and my jig so no need to sample others.
            chris :D

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            • #7
              I've got the A stock cones from UFO. They are suppose to be the same exact dimensions as roland. I just think the material isn't as good as roland, or maybe I'm still just doing something wrong.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by produc3d View Post
                I've got the A stock cones from UFO. They are suppose to be the same exact dimensions as roland. I just think the material isn't as good as roland, or maybe I'm still just doing something wrong.
                The foam density can vary conciderably on one UFO cone to the next and will make a difference in response. Try rigging up a Poron cone and check the response. If you still have problems it could be a new piezo is in order also.

                Since you are already going to replace the cone.... if it were me, I would go ahead and replace both piezo and cone at the same time.... that is if you have an extra piezo.... And if you don't .... you should have.... always good to have extra piezos on hand when you are DIYing drums

                Oh, and 1/8" above the bearing edge with the Very Soft Poron cone is a good starting point... usually works perfect.
                I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
                Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

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                • #9
                  jman please help

                  thanks for the info jman. I've now got a poron cone made up and mounted in my 12" snare. The cone is a perfect shape. I used a jig and a bandsaw to cut it out. The poron fixed my double triggering issues but I've lost the ability to do fluid buzz roll near the rim. I've tried several cone hieghts but still no luck. I never had problems with buzz roll using a ufo cone. I think thats because its more firm than the poron. My head tension is 2 whole turns on each lug, sometimes 2 1/2. I'm also using a td-6. I've heard some people say that they couldn't get good rolls until they tried a td-8 or td-10, but I dont think my module could effect it since I was getting good rolls before. Any suggestions on what I should do???

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by produc3d View Post
                    thanks for the info jman. I've now got a poron cone made up and mounted in my 12" snare. The cone is a perfect shape. I used a jig and a bandsaw to cut it out. The poron fixed my double triggering issues but I've lost the ability to do fluid buzz roll near the rim. I've tried several cone hieghts but still no luck. I never had problems with buzz roll using a ufo cone. I think thats because its more firm than the poron. My head tension is 2 whole turns on each lug, sometimes 2 1/2. I'm also using a td-6. I've heard some people say that they couldn't get good rolls until they tried a td-8 or td-10, but I dont think my module could effect it since I was getting good rolls before. Any suggestions on what I should do???
                    Not sure if you replaced the piezo. Sometimes a firm cone can damage the piezo. You mentioned that before with the UFO cone when you hit hard you got NO sound... that is not usually a good sign...

                    But, assuming the piezo is good.... Have you tried adjusting any module trigger parameters?
                    I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
                    Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

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                    • #11
                      yeah I've adjust module parameters. Scan time is 1.6, sensitivity 6, linear, x-talk is set to off, linear, retrigger at 3, and mask at 4ms. I did reuse the piezo but I inspected it and it appeared like new, no cracks or bends. I'm thinking about building one of your devo hats. Do you think I would have better luck with more foam contacting the head? Should I tighten my head more? I'm using a hart magnum. Shouldn't be a problem with the head. I'm going insane!!! but I love it. What do you think jman?

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                      • #12
                        Dunno.... never had a problem with a Very Soft Poron cone the foam is as close to the Roland density as you can get... Is your threshold set low enough? I don't have a TD-6, so someone with that module might be of more help.... Also, try lowering Mask time to 0.... Retrig Cncl to the lowest.
                        I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
                        Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

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                        • #13
                          My threshold is set to 1. What do you think would happen if I had more contact with the head like your devo hat?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by produc3d View Post
                            My threshold is set to 1. What do you think would happen if I had more contact with the head like your devo hat?
                            Maybe worth a try... First try lowering Mask Time and Retrig Cncl to the lowest setting, and maybe raise sensitivity a bit.... and set Scan time to 2.0 as a starting point.
                            Last edited by JmanWord; 09-23-08, 07:56 PM.
                            I could tell you where to stick that piezo! ;)
                            Stealthdrums.com Mega Kit: Pearl Mimic Pro ,2Box modules,drums and cymbals too many to count. VST quality sounds directly from the Mimic and custom sounds loaded into and played directly from the 2Box modules. Visit me anytime at: http://stealthdrums.com/

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                            • #15
                              Hints:
                              ¤ Try upgrading TD-6V to 1.02. Helped my kick to be more reactive, and my snare don't fire max velocity as often anymore, which sounds better. I have TD-6V and I don't have any problems with inconsistencies.
                              ¤ Have the cone at least a few mm above the rim edge.
                              ¤ Exchange the piezo. A good 35mm piezo should be more than sensitive enough. 27 mm is less sensitive and less fragile.
                              ¤ Check all the solerings - correct placement, and solid soldering. You can solder while the TD-6V is on to test which one is correct.
                              ¤ Use plenty of isolation beneath the head piezo. If will detect rimshots like a MF.
                              ¤ Check the cables and solder new ones or buy extra.

                              It is interesting to hear about your rolls with different cones. Tell us what you find out. I have rather hard cones, and maybe I could get a better roll if I tried a softer one. I also tried a concave slope on the cone, which made the cone thinner. There is a slight difference, I will tell you when I know more.

                              I would like to change the velocity on the TD-6Vv, but I have not found it yet.
                              Last edited by Rewind; 09-30-08, 06:15 AM.

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