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My Super Easy A to E Choke, Edge Switch.

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  • My Super Easy A to E Choke, Edge Switch.

    I got to thinking about all of the choke designs floating around and I have not seen this one done yet.

    This will only work on acoustic (metal) converted cymbals.

    I'm using the cymbal body itself as one half of my choke switch.

    I get both choke and edge sounds from this one switch.

    I took an old $20 crash cymbal I had laying around and cut a strip about 10" long (tin snips worked perfect).


    Sand or file the cut edges smooth and cut a small tab into the center of the back edge. Clean the tab and solder a wire to the tab, you will need a small torch for this. If you cant solder then you can also use a crimp-on spade connector, just cut your tab to the right size so your connector will slide on. Make sure to heatshrink the connection.




    Test fit the strip to your cymbal that you are converting or have already converted. If you already have your cymbal dampened it's important to make sure that all of the glue and dampening material be removed from the area that your strip will mount to or this will not work.


    Clean the underside of your strip and attach double sidded tape to the back and side edges only, I'm using 3M VHB for this. Tape should be at least 1/16th" thick.


    Remove the tape backing and stick the strip to the edge of your cymbal. Make sure once the strip is stuck down that you have about the thickness of a penny gap between your AtoE cymbal and your cut cymbal strip. I use a small screwdriver to adjust by holding down the back edged of your strip and bending the strip at the outer edge until I have the spacing I want.

    Wiring is basic. Run the wire from your switch into your project box and solder it to the ring tab on your jack. Next take a small piece of wire and solder that to the sleeve tab, secure the other end of the wire to one of the bolts holding on your jack box, I soldered mine but you can also use a crimp on ring terminal.I used yellow wire in the picture to make it easier to see for this post.


    Finished product!!!


    I have tested this on my td3 and it works perfect, light squeeze and the sound chokes, a stiff hit to the edged and you get the edge sound.

  • #2
    Thats brilliant Sarge!

    I always wondered if you couldn't use the cymbal itself as part of the circuit.
    I'm definately filing this one under 'must try soon'...
    Jack

    Sabre's Album

    Comment


    • #3
      Looks familiar. http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35176

      I recently suggested to Hellfire that a brass cymbal could be used as 1/2 of the choke. And I think your use of a THICK tape for the separation makes the overall choke much simpler to construct regardless if you use two or one piece of aluminum.

      Comment


      • #4
        wait, so its a two zone cymbal using only one piezo?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BeyondStupidity View Post
          wait, so its a two zone cymbal using only one piezo?

          Yep!! No reaper circuit needed. This is a piezo switch design.

          You get the hit and edged sounds plus choke.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gastric View Post
            Looks familiar. http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35176

            I recently suggested to Hellfire that a brass cymbal could be used as 1/2 of the choke. And I think your use of a THICK tape for the separation makes the overall choke much simpler to construct regardless if you use two or one piece of aluminum.

            Pretty close to the same design except you dont have to build a 3 layer membrane switch. With A to E's you already have half of the switch pre-built for you, your converted cymbal.

            I used an old cymbal as my donor because it matches fairly close if your looking for stealth. It's already got the right shape so it springs back and wont stay in contact with the cymbal. With a flat sheet you might have to do some peening to get the contour right.

            Comment


            • #7
              Note it's the switch has dual function with the ROLAND modules. If you have a Trigger IO you'll get a single function out of the switch and can only assign it a single MIDI NOTE to output. I'll test this with the Trigger IO to see if it can use the cymbal as half the switch successfully.

              I'd think you might run into the same issue I had with my particular flashing as I'm assuming some cymbals have a varnish or clear coat on them. If they do you'd get no metal-to-metal contact without sanding that area of the cymbal.

              Sarge, as with my suggestion to Hellfire it looks like you use the project box mounting screw to connect to the cymbal. I thought this was likely to work since the screw is theoretically touching the cymbal where you drill through it. But wanted to confirm that's ALL you did was wire to the box mounting screw and didn't have to do anything else to promote wire-to-cymbal conductivity.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sarge201 View Post
                Yep!! No reaper circuit needed. This is a piezo switch design.

                You get the hit and edged sounds plus choke.
                Looks good. I do find it interesting that when I first showed the idea of this type of switch/second zone it mainly fell on deaf ears. Better late then never I guess. Here is the original post about the switch acting as a second zone.

                http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showpost...77&postcount=5

                Gastric and I actually talked about using just one side of the switch a few days ago. Just today I started writing an update to my Get a Choke Hold (eCymbal Choke Switch) on how to do just what sarge201 did. It looks like you beat me to the punch by a few hours.

                Good job sarge201, I look forward to seeing more from you.

                With that said, I have one more idea to through out there. You can also put the switch under the PVC layer to make an encased switch.
                alesisDRUMMER.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gastric View Post
                  Note it's the switch has dual function with the ROLAND modules. If you have a Trigger IO you'll get a single function out of the switch and can only assign it a single MIDI NOTE to output. I'll test this with the Trigger IO to see if it can use the cymbal as half the switch successfully.

                  I'd think you might run into the same issue I had with my particular flashing as I'm assuming some cymbals have a varnish or clear coat on them. If they do you'd get no metal-to-metal contact without sanding that area of the cymbal.

                  Sarge, as with my suggestion to Hellfire it looks like you use the project box mounting screw to connect to the cymbal. I thought this was likely to work since the screw is theoretically touching the cymbal where you drill through it. But wanted to confirm that's ALL you did was wire to the box mounting screw and didn't have to do anything else to promote wire-to-cymbal conductivity.
                  Yep, connected right to one of the project box bolts. You do bring up a good point about cymbals having coatings. I would always use a multimeter and make sure you have good conductivity on your favorite flavour of cymbal.

                  I have used this with the trigger i/o and it works fine but the i/o is limited so you can assign the switch either as a choke or a edged sound but not both as is not the case with the Roland modules where you can have all three.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The only reason I thought of coatings on the cymbal was that I have coatings on the particular flashing I bought. Took me a while to crack the case on that one. I'd get conductivity on the cut edges but not the surfaces. Until I sanded the holy mother out of it!

                    Question about the 3M tape. How thick is that? I know Killer Red is supposedly a 3M knock-off. But the Killer Red is very, very thin. Certainly not 1/16th as you mentioned. I don't think it'd be thick enough to use as a separator in this switch (either Hellfire's original design or your version). Guess there's only one way to find out!

                    If you put the tape on the front edge, even a small strip, I think that'd negate you having to do ANY bending of the flashing. Using Hellfire's plastic separator design which goes around the entire perimeter I didn't have to bend diddly. Though I was concerned about the metal just touching on it's own since it's pressed into a concave cymbal surface.

                    Anyway, good stuff! Thanks for confirming my theories on using the cymbal for 1/2 the switch. Getting closer and closer to being about as simple as it could possibly be I think.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gastric View Post
                      The only reason I thought of coatings on the cymbal was that I have coatings on the particular flashing I bought. Took me a while to crack the case on that one. I'd get conductivity on the cut edges but not the surfaces. Until I sanded the holy mother out of it!

                      Question about the 3M tape. How thick is that? I know Killer Red is supposedly a 3M knock-off. But the Killer Red is very, very thin. Certainly not 1/16th as you mentioned. I don't think it'd be thick enough to use as a separator in this switch (either Hellfire's original design or your version). Guess there's only one way to find out!

                      If you put the tape on the front edge, even a small strip, I think that'd negate you having to do ANY bending of the flashing. Using Hellfire's plastic separator design which goes around the entire perimeter I didn't have to bend diddly. Though I was concerned about the metal just touching on it's own since it's pressed into a concave cymbal surface.

                      Anyway, good stuff! Thanks for confirming my theories on using the cymbal for 1/2 the switch. Getting closer and closer to being about as simple as it could possibly be I think.

                      The tape is about 1/16th of an inch thick. Wal-Mart, about $3 or $4 bucks for a small roll. The killer red is way to thin for this.

                      I tried a couple small strips in the front but did not like the response. After trial and error I found this to work the best for me. The old cymbal is a little thicker and not as bendable as aluminium flashing.

                      The choke would still work with a small piece of tape in front but you will have a dead spot were the tape is placed, plus it and the A to E cymbal needs to be able to flex when striking the edge. I have been banging on these about two hours a day for the last month and they are still working as if it was day one.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        For some reason I thought VHB was like $70 a roll?

                        I see if you're using the flashing for an edge switch you'd need the front lip un-taped so it can contact during a strike. I'm just using it for a choke.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gastric View Post
                          For some reason I thought VHB was like $70 a roll?

                          I see if you're using the flashing for an edge switch you'd need the front lip un-taped so it can contact during a strike. I'm just using it for a choke.

                          It is very pricey if you buy a large roll. The stuff at Wal-Mart is only 3 feet in length by 1/2" width. 3M foam tape would probably work just as well.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sarge201 View Post
                            Yep!! No reaper circuit needed. This is a piezo switch design.

                            You get the hit and edged sounds plus choke.
                            WOW! thats a lot simpler then i thought it had to be!

                            so, i'm going to use acrylic cymbals. If i did this with two layers of aluminum(like helfires) then i could have a choke, duel zone, raper-circuit-less, working cymbal??!?!

                            sorry if i'm a little slow to get the idea but I've been told that if its too good to be true it probably is

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BeyondStupidity View Post
                              WOW! thats a lot simpler then i thought it had to be!

                              so, i'm going to use acrylic cymbals. If i did this with two layers of aluminum(like helfires) then i could have a choke, duel zone, raper-circuit-less, working cymbal??!?!

                              sorry if i'm a little slow to get the idea but I've been told that if its too good to be true it probably is
                              Yes and no, With non metal cymbals I would use Hellfire's design, you will get the choke for sure mounted underneath or you could do like he has said in other posts about building the Hellfire switch and mounting it on top. Then you would have hit and edge sounds plus choke (Roland module).

                              The only time you need the reaper circuit is if you are using a piezo in place of the rim switch and you are using a piezo/switch input.
                              Last edited by sarge201; 06-29-08, 01:59 AM.

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