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Positional sense problem

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  • Positional sense problem

    After I changed out my cones to ufodrums A-stock coneheads I'm having problems with P.S.(snare, tom1,2,3 &4 ) I go to the screen to adjust head tension and it says the heads are too low.....but they're cranked down pretty damn tight. I've tweeked all other settings to my liking, but I'm not getting proper P.S. anymore......argh Could it be the cones are all wrong?(too stiff, too tall, too something?)

  • #2
    Same here

    Originally posted by SPISHAK View Post
    After I changed out my cones to ufodrums A-stock coneheads I'm having problems with P.S.(snare, tom1,2,3 &4 ) I go to the screen to adjust head tension and it says the heads are too low.....but they're cranked down pretty damn tight. I've tweeked all other settings to my liking, but I'm not getting proper P.S. anymore......argh Could it be the cones are all wrong?(too stiff, too tall, too something?)
    Working on a DIY snare and after several weeks of cones, new piezos different sizes, different combinations of fixing methods ie foam tape under/on top/no tape/cut to ceramic size/large small/thin thick and cone height, head tensions, different mesh, different platform, crossbar, different wiring and jack plugs connector, different settings on the module, even tried piezo ceramic side down, i STILL have no PS and must conclude that Roland cones have a different consistency than UFO ...

    Your report has now convinced me

    ps did make a few postings and read some threads, would be nice to solve it so i'm gonna stick with it.
    Last edited by daveybabes; 05-15-08, 05:36 AM.
    WEBSITE - http://www.diamondelectronicdrums.com/
    YOUTUBE CHANNEL - http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbVB...?feature=guide
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    • #3
      Have you tried moving the sticks? (I'm just taking the PS. )


      Bruce

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      • #4
        Sticks

        Originally posted by BarT View Post
        Have you tried moving the sticks? (I'm just taking the PS. )


        Bruce
        ooo you are naughty yes moved sticks to several locations and even had module power switched on, how much are Roland cones again? will start saving now ...
        WEBSITE - http://www.diamondelectronicdrums.com/
        YOUTUBE CHANNEL - http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbVB...?feature=guide
        FACEBOOK me at ... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...83235555050736
        :eek: ...
        Showcase 1 - http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=253
        Showcase 2 - http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=354

        Comment


        • #5
          First of all, where is "scan time" set? This will make a huge difference! It should be set a little higher for PD. Referencing p.111 of the TD-10 manual, it recommends a scan time as low as possible. BUT, the note at the bottom of the page says, "If you have lowered the “SCAN TIME”, the head tension adjustment (p.110) does not work correctly." I've found that using the Roland guidance for setting scan time (start at 0 and work up), I COULD stop at about 1.2, but I have no PD. I start to get a little PD about 2.0, but I have great PD with about 2.8. Of course, if you set scan time too high, it can have an adverse effect in other areas. As referenced in the note on p.111, the head tension guidance on the TD-10exp definitely changes with the scan time. For example, with scan time 2.0 and head tension "normal" (my target on the module), it might show the head way too tight (2-3 arrows). When I raised scan time to 3.0, it showed way too loose! (mind you, I'm not at my set right now, so it could have been the other way around).

          For cones, I am using the super-soft poron foam from McMaster-Carr (see pic) on my 13" DIY snare, and I'm getting GREAT PD. I have a UFO cone on my 14" DIY snare, and the performance is vastly different (I almost hesitate to make this comparison, as it's two different drums, the cone height may be slightly different, etc. -- there's a lot of possible variables here). My obsevation from A-B-'ing them last week. The UFO cone was super-sensitive, maybe TOO sensitive. My sensitivity was at 1 and I still had a definite hot-spot when the cone-top was struck directly, and I would say I even had a "warm"-spot in the center 3" of the drum. PD was average. With the supersoft poron, I seem to have little to no hotspot and the response (sensitivity set at 2) is much more even across the head (but definitely not as loud and "in your face" as with the UFO cone, all other module parameters optimized for the drum). And, as I said, PD is great with my supersoft poron "Devo Hat" (TM JMan ).

          Sorry that this got a little DIY-ish, but to answer a comment previously, I think foam consistency/hardness/height/etc definitely DOES make a difference.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by freddarl82; 05-14-08, 10:31 PM.
          Roland TD-10exp, DIY 13" snare, DIY toms, DIY mesh Bass Trigger, Roland CY-15r, CY-8, CY-5, and Pintech PC cymbals

          Comment


          • #6
            Fredd.....how many rim piezos do you need on yer snare?

            Comment


            • #7
              I have 3 on my 13" snare.

              Pssst...We better be careful, or we'll get thrown over to the DIY thread
              Roland TD-10exp, DIY 13" snare, DIY toms, DIY mesh Bass Trigger, Roland CY-15r, CY-8, CY-5, and Pintech PC cymbals

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by freddarl82 View Post
                where is "scan time" set?
                I messed with scan just now, and by cranking it up .6~.8, depending on the pad, I was able to hit the "target" for head tension. I still don't hear very much positionality though. It's weird how just changing cones made so many settings need to be changed. Scan time was at the stock 2.0 since '02.....now they're ~2.6 ~2.8....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Poron

                  Originally posted by freddarl82 View Post
                  For cones, I am using the super-soft poron foam from McMaster-Carr (see pic) on my 13" DIY snare, and I'm getting GREAT PD.
                  What size and shape did u order? seems an endless choice on there ...

                  Dave
                  WEBSITE - http://www.diamondelectronicdrums.com/
                  YOUTUBE CHANNEL - http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbVB...?feature=guide
                  FACEBOOK me at ... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...83235555050736
                  :eek: ...
                  Showcase 1 - http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=253
                  Showcase 2 - http://vdrums.com/forum/album.php?albumid=354

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It sounds like you did have good PD, and after changing the cone you do not...

                    I was just messing around on my TD-10exp (10 of my own "custom" kits and 40 from the VEX Pack Master 50), and I find the amount of PD (I'll limit this discussion to the snare) varies greatly between different kits. On some it's very dramatic, on others non-existent (the pattern I seem to detect is that the "plain" snares i.e. #'s 113-183 on the original, non-expanded menu, give no PD. The good PD always seems to be on the "V-Snare" selections). Not sure if this is to be expected or if it's my imagination...

                    Point is, do you remember which kits on your module had very good, almost dramatic PD, to use as your "test" kit while experimenting? It seems like if you are testing with one of the "basic" (non V-Snare) sounds, you may be chasing an unattainable goal. Anybody know about this for sure?
                    Roland TD-10exp, DIY 13" snare, DIY toms, DIY mesh Bass Trigger, Roland CY-15r, CY-8, CY-5, and Pintech PC cymbals

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, only V-Snare sounds have positional sensing.


                      Bruce

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks, Bruce! Is this also the same for the tom's PD, too (V-tom's only)?
                        Roland TD-10exp, DIY 13" snare, DIY toms, DIY mesh Bass Trigger, Roland CY-15r, CY-8, CY-5, and Pintech PC cymbals

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, but positional sensing is only available on the EXP V-TOM sounds (696-751) not the original V-TOM sounds (184-303).


                          Bruce

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Again, Bruce, many thanks! I'm learning more everyday on the forums!
                            Roland TD-10exp, DIY 13" snare, DIY toms, DIY mesh Bass Trigger, Roland CY-15r, CY-8, CY-5, and Pintech PC cymbals

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by freddarl82 View Post
                              First of all, where is "scan time" set? This will make a huge difference! It should be set a little higher for PD. Referencing p.111 of the TD-10 manual, it recommends a scan time as low as possible. BUT, the note at the bottom of the page says, "If you have lowered the “SCAN TIME”, the head tension adjustment (p.110) does not work correctly." I've found that using the Roland guidance for setting scan time (start at 0 and work up), I COULD stop at about 1.2, but I have no PD. I start to get a little PD about 2.0, but I have great PD with about 2.8. Of course, if you set scan time too high, it can have an adverse effect in other areas. As referenced in the note on p.111, the head tension guidance on the TD-10exp definitely changes with the scan time. For example, with scan time 2.0 and head tension "normal" (my target on the module), it might show the head way too tight (2-3 arrows). When I raised scan time to 3.0, it showed way too loose! (mind you, I'm not at my set right now, so it could have been the other way around).

                              For cones, I am using the super-soft poron foam from McMaster-Carr (see pic) on my 13" DIY snare, and I'm getting GREAT PD. I have a UFO cone on my 14" DIY snare, and the performance is vastly different (I almost hesitate to make this comparison, as it's two different drums, the cone height may be slightly different, etc. -- there's a lot of possible variables here). My obsevation from A-B-'ing them last week. The UFO cone was super-sensitive, maybe TOO sensitive. My sensitivity was at 1 and I still had a definite hot-spot when the cone-top was struck directly, and I would say I even had a "warm"-spot in the center 3" of the drum. PD was average. With the supersoft poron, I seem to have little to no hotspot and the response (sensitivity set at 2) is much more even across the head (but definitely not as loud and "in your face" as with the UFO cone, all other module parameters optimized for the drum). And, as I said, PD is great with my supersoft poron "Devo Hat" (TM JMan ).

                              Sorry that this got a little DIY-ish, but to answer a comment previously, I think foam consistency/hardness/height/etc definitely DOES make a difference.
                              Fred!!

                              Checking out the crossbar setup in your snare drum, very clean! I want to do this for a bass drum. The area of the plates-are they just regular screws there to raise and lower the trigger?

                              swing

                              Comment

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