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How does the ATV outer wedge work? (technically)

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  • How does the ATV outer wedge work? (technically)

    I do not own an ATV Snare (but the module AD5) and wondering how they managed to get a functional 3 Zone trigger system, is it a piezo/switch/switch circuit?
    Is there a Piezo inside the wedge, or underneath the screws that hold it?

  • #2
    Originally posted by docdoghouse View Post
    I do not own an ATV Snare (but the module AD5) and wondering how they managed to get a functional 3 Zone trigger system, is it a piezo/switch/switch circuit?
    Is there a Piezo inside the wedge, or underneath the screws that hold it?
    You can take a look at Rdubus DIY thread where he makes a snare with three cones. It's exactly the same.

    It's three piezos with cones for the head wired in parrallel and three piezos for the rim wired in parallel.

    Basically it is an aluminium ring/donut attached to the lug attachment screws on the inside providing a base plate for everything. The three cones for the head are mounted on the ring/donut and decoupled with some foam or other means. The rim piezos (three of them) are attached to the aluminium donut.

    The cross stick part is just a piece of wood attached to the lug tuning screws from the outside to provide more sensitivity to the rim piezos.
    Last edited by frankzappa; 06-05-20, 04:44 AM.

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    • #3
      Here he shows the inside of the drums.

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      • #4
        thank you frankzappa, very informative.
        My question was about the "wood block" and i think i made a mistake in thinking. I thought the wood block enables to get a rimclick while hitting the rim itself will produce a rimshot.
        But now it seems that you have to choose stick OR rimshot in the module like with any other pad ? Is that right?

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        • #5
          You can get both cross stick and rim shot sounds, based on velocity of the hit using a Mimic with ATV snare. You also don't absolutely need the side wood piece but it may help a little.
          ATV aDrums Artist expanded kit, Mimic Pro. Ludwig 1967 black oyster pearl five piece, Zildjian A custom crashes, A. Zildjian ride and hats.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by docdoghouse View Post
            thank you frankzappa, very informative.
            My question was about the "wood block" and i think i made a mistake in thinking. I thought the wood block enables to get a rimclick while hitting the rim itself will produce a rimshot.
            But now it seems that you have to choose stick OR rimshot in the module like with any other pad ? Is that right?
            You get both. The wood only amplifies the signal for better sensitivity. The module can tell the difference even though there is no separate sensor.

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            • #7
              The magic is in the module and it's under ATV's patents. The module can "hear" the difference between the cross stick strike on the wooden cross stick surface than the rubber rim or the head. The higher pitch triggers the module to choose the cross stick sound. A rim/head sounds different and will do rim shot. A head only, does a head hit. It's an elegant solution without any mechanical switches involved.
              ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

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              • #8
                I see...is it possible to get the goal with a DIY snarepad? Maybe i should try my Yamaha Russ Miller groove wedge?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by docdoghouse View Post
                  I see...is it possible to get the goal with a DIY snarepad? Maybe i should try my Yamaha Russ Miller groove wedge?
                  If you use similar materials and similar design I don't see why not. The best way to do it would be to see the ATV cross stick in an oscilloscope and then make sure your design is producing a similar waveform. Same thing as using the right foam material to make trigger cones.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jpsquared482 View Post
                    The magic is in the module and it's under ATV's patents. The module can "hear" the difference between the cross stick strike on the wooden cross stick surface than the rubber rim or the head. The higher pitch triggers the module to choose the cross stick sound. A rim/head sounds different and will do rim shot. A head only, does a head hit. It's an elegant solution without any mechanical switches involved.
                    Doesn't it work by wave form analysis ? Like the positional sensing Roland Patent ?
                    Could you please give the link to the ATV Patent ?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sylv1co View Post

                      Doesn't it work by wave form analysis ? Like the positional sensing Roland Patent ?
                      Could you please give the link to the ATV Patent ?
                      I haven't seen the patent my self and would be interested.

                      Wave form analysis is the same thing. The waveform will look different depending on the pitch. A wood block would have a much faster attack and decay than hitting mesh or rubber.

                      You can also use a fast fourier transform type of thing but essentially it's the same thing. It scans for time elapsed between peaks only FFT does some calcuations to separate all the different frequencies of a signal and display all of them separately. This however takes more time to analyse.

                      Edit: Maybe you already know more than me about this :P
                      Last edited by frankzappa; 06-06-20, 07:02 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Waveform analysis was patented by Roland, their patent should be in public domain since 2017 or 2019, not very clear. ATV is to my knowledge the only company that uses this technology in their module (if they actually use it), and the AD5 module is out at least since 2016... I'm just curious. Their technology should be different than the one used by Roland.

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