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Why do Jobeky place their peizos in the project box?

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  • Why do Jobeky place their peizos in the project box?

    So in my attachments there should be two pictures of a Jobeky cymbal I have which shows how the peizo is place on the underside of the project box next to the TRS.

    I've also uploaded a picture of a DIY cymbal that I've made. I have several project boxes lying around which are currently used just for housing the TRS input, should I attach the peizo in the same manner as Jobeky?

    Does this improve triggering and isolate hits from vibration? Or is it something else?
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Maybe it's better for increasing the lifespan of the piezo, or the soldering? As piezos must always be stuck, but a project box can be bolted. The plastic would help adsorb some of the impact.

    Piezos directly attached to the brass surface will flex and vibrate along with it, especially if hitting the edge - as a slow motion video will reveal. But maybe even the strongest glue comes unstuck from all the vibration after a while?
    ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
    ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
    PA Comparison Sheet

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    • #3
      Kabon so you believe this is more of a construction thing than a triggering thing?

      I'm only asking really because I just want to have the best triggering for my DIY cymbals

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      • #4
        I'm speculating that it's more of a construction thing. The difference in triggering is going to be negligible ether way.

        I think Jobeky would ultimately pick the easiest, most repeatable manufacturing process to ensure consistency and longevity - like protection from the elements / people leaving these cymbals in environments where certain DIY solutions would otherwise be too fragile.

        It's different when you DIY and you can literally over-engineer it so it never breaks, but not on a production line when the build process has to be simple and quick to keep costs down.
        ◾ Diamond Drums 4pc in Di-Noc carbon ◾ MegaDRUM
        ◾ Roland UA-1010 / cymbals / KT-10 (x2) ◾ Tama / Gibraltar hardware ◾ JBL LSR3 Series 2.1 Monitoring ◾ Pearl THMP-1
        PA Comparison Sheet

        Comment


        • #5
          Metal cymbals notoriously vibrate (even LV) so I would assume this is for longevity and reliability. I would think the difference between housing the piezo in the project box vs attaching it directly to the cymbal surface would in fact be negligible.

          I'm really curious to see if anyone has peeled apart one of Jobeky’s full metal cymbals or one of Field’s 2019+ cymbals to see how they have things set up....
          Roland TD-50 & eDRUMin Modules | Superior Drummer 3 | Tama A2E w/ R-Drums Triggers | FIELD, ATV, & Roland Cymbals | ACD Unlimited Pedals | Tama & Gibraltar HW | RME HDSPe AIO Interface | Mackie ProFX10v3 Mixer | Simmons DA200S Monitor | V-MODA Crossfade M-100 OEMs & Westone UM Pro 50 IEMs

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          • #6
            Triggera does it, too (clean design, very rugged). I've started to do the same when I don't need multiple piezos on a surface.
            One reason is aesthetics, of course. But more important: the piezo stays protected. The inner (crystalline) region needs to be protected against sudden hits, and the solder joints come off easily when a cable is pulled, be it cymbal flex or whatever. My first projects had the cables tied along the underside, with quite some distance to the project box and the jacks.This doesn't last long. Especially not with something like a hihat that's under force and heavy vibration most of the time. Having short cables residing relatively loose inside a project box, with the piezo right there puts away all that strain. And it's a protection against the outside world.
            Cymbal flex picked up by the piezo can be treated in various ways: put the project box mostly to the inner region (close to the bell), which also makes triggering more even when you're mostly interested in having a large angular bow area. Furthermore, put the piezo on a adhesive foam pad. I'm using double-sided montage tape from the hardware store, the thicker, absorbant one. But: always place the brass side towards the cymbal, never the crystal side. You'd be blocking the contact area with the solder joints, and there's no way to correct or remove the pad without breaking the crystal. Thin cracks in the structure aren't visible but yet they can be there.
            The foam pad shouldn't be too thick, though. It acts as a lowpass filter, and it's nonlinear. Which means the thicker the pad, the more inertia there is, so that light hits and signal spikes aren't transferred on to the piezo well. On a scope one can clearly see that, the signal spike is less sharp then, and dynamics can become more exponential (in the high frequencies, which is what a detection algorithm would be mostly interested in). But thicker pads are more protective, so it's about outweighing things.
            Last edited by sascha; 02-25-20, 04:14 AM.
            gear: MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3, Goedrum HH controller), Triggera 10" splash
            band: http://theboardmusic.com

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            • #7
              Originally posted by rdubu View Post
              I'm really curious to see if anyone has peeled apart one of Jobeky’s full metal cymbals or one of Field’s 2019+ cymbals to see how they have things set up....
              look at my attachments

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              • #8
                Sascha, when you bring up foam, are we talking about a piezo mounted directly onto a metal cymbal or mounted inside a box?

                What is the estimate thickness of foam you use in mm?

                The crux of my issue is that I'm sharing the kit with other drummers so I opt for metal cymbals so that they have the familiarity of an acoustic. Mesh heads for the drums while not exact seem to bounce like skin does, so that issue is solved.

                However if a gun is at my head, I would pick the material that triggers the best. I can't afford to buy new material at the moment so what I have are perferated LV cymbals.

                I'm also working on daisy changing switches on the rims and bells to get better zoning in that department.

                Do you have any trigger setup to advise? Thanks for providing all the useful info so far.

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                • #9
                  I glue the pad directly to the underside of the cymbal, and I omit the bottom of the project box.

                  The pad is a thin type, 1mm or slightly thinner.
                  gear: MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3, Goedrum HH controller), Triggera 10" splash
                  band: http://theboardmusic.com

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                  • #10
                    do you have any photos of that?
                    Alesis STRIKE, PD-85 rack toms, PD-105BK floor tom, Mapex snare with ISM-6, PDP MX 22" kick with ISM, iron cobra 900 double pedal, hart e-cymbal2, CY-5 as splash, CY-8, CY-12R, L80 hi-hat with cheap-o trigger with goedrum hi hat controller. EZdrummer2+EZX/Addictive Drums 2 VSTs.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by winterson View Post
                      do you have any photos of that?
                      Here is a 13" Arborea Mute. Was initially a pair of hihats. One is used for the hihat top (above a Goedrum controller), and this one is a spare crash.

                      DSC_0775.JPG
                      DSC_0776.JPG
                      DSC_0777.JPG
                      gear: MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3, Goedrum HH controller), Triggera 10" splash
                      band: http://theboardmusic.com

                      Comment

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