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Triggering a 20inch Low Volume Ride cymbal (and having issues with it)

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  • #31
    Scroll through this thread to see how I make my side-mounted triggers. They work great and are quite simple to make.
    MegaDrum module, DIY A2E pads, DIY hall effect 3 zone hi hat, DIY 1, 2 & 3 zone cymbals, DIY kick beater triggers on DIY modded longboard, direct drive pedals, DIY triple driver IEMs, El Cheapo Buttkicker. Various VSTs running in a tweaked Linux Mint. Kit pics thread

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    • #32
      Originally posted by mvdput View Post
      Added a 2-ply mesh head to my 14 snare without changing the trigger settings. But immediately got a lot more double triggering. Turned up the mesh head tension to real tight, but still a lot of double triggering.
      So in my case single-ply works a lot better to prevent double trigering.

      Still doing modifications and changes to my diy snare trigger, but still not the result that I want.
      I am almost in for buying a commercial internal trigger if I cannot get my diy right. But just for the thought of paying 40-60 for a few components of less than 5,- still holds me back ;p
      Sorry to hear that!

      There is no tweaking in the module involved?

      My side-mounted triggers for toms are very simple:
      Mounted on the bolt of the lug.
      L bracket (upside down) A piece of soft foam, with on top a piezo, connected to a jack-input.
      Make shure the brass side is up and that it sticks ca. 2mm above the shell.
      Mount the mesh-head. (brass side touches the head)

      A bit of tweaking on my TD9 module and it works great!
      Ludwig Epic, Roland Mesh-heads, DIY Cymbals, Roland TD-9, EZdrummer2 + EZX

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Dreamdrummer View Post

        Sorry to hear that!

        There is no tweaking in the module involved?
        I did not change the module settings at first. I changed the head to a 2-ply head with about the same tension. Immediately a lot more double triggering, even on the softer hits. Tightend the head a lot more and tweaked the settings in the module, but no result at all. Maybe the brand of 2-ply also makes a difference. I used a very cheap one that I was using on the bottom of my snare.
        So I went back to the 1-ply head since that was my best result so far.

        Originally posted by Dreamdrummer View Post
        My side-mounted triggers for toms are very simple:
        Mounted on the bolt of the lug.
        L bracket (upside down) A piece of soft foam, with on top a piezo, connected to a jack-input.
        Make shure the brass side is up and that it sticks ca. 2mm above the shell.
        Mount the mesh-head. (brass side touches the head)

        A bit of tweaking on my TD9 module and it works great!
        My first DIY trigger was the same as yours, although maybe the piezo size differs and the type and height of the foam. Since then I have been experimenting with different setups of the piezo/foam but not yet 100% satisfying. My first version with the piezo directly touches to the head (indeed upside down with the brass touching the head) gave too much double triggering which I could not avoid with module settings. But I think I need to go back to that setup again, since others (included Wronka) and 2Box Triggit (the external version) are doing the same thing.

        What kind of foam did you use, what was the height of the foam and what is the size of your piezo?
        2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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        • #34
          After some more diy I finally have eliminated the double triggering on the snare.
          I went back to my original piezo setup; inside directly touching the head.
          But I also added a soft piece of foam to the inside of my snare.
          I could not find any decent foam strip in the shops, so had something laying in my garage but the form was not exactly straight and too small to make it a nice even square or rectangle shape.

          So so it does look awful and this is my first version but it eliminates all double triggers and the head is still very sensitive. So this is a keeper! Only need to find better parts to make it all look better
          I already had excellent rim/head separation due to my Chinese white high density foam, so apart from the looks, the playability is there.
          7FC79423-16ED-423E-B811-0AA951E48040.jpeg
          F64E65F2-3E58-4BDA-83E6-C2F6FD1BF696.jpeg
          2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

          Comment


          • #35
            Just be aware that by putting the piezo off centre your positional sensing is compromised somewhat. The piezo relies off the timing between pulse widths to determine location, and if the head does not vibrate around the centre of the head the module will not be able to locate your hit as it can't detect the pulse timing frequency differences that occur from an edge hit that has a tighter/higher frequency. Your edge foam may also interfere with the detection also. Think of the drum head in sectional view, and it reacts just like a string. To apply the thinking to a drum head fully you just rotate said sectional string view on the axis of where the piezo is located, thus centre is best. Hard to explain, I guess maybe a video explanation with diagrams may help people understand why dual ply can sometimes cause double triggering but also resolve... but unfortunately no one out there is gunna have the detectional equipment to be able to know the best combination of materials, so would be more just an explanation as to why people have it rather than a solid way to avoid the issue when designing. It's these exact reasons why there is no solid "how to" when it comes to making cymbals and drums, because there are too many combinations of materials that interact differently and produce different results.

            My tests for instance showed that Santoprene rubber is the best strike surface for a rubber cymbal with the best vibrational properties available for the e-drum market, however most people are unable to find this material in small enough sizes as it is an industrial rubber product usually sold in huge scale, and that's just one material example.
            Last edited by Myrk-; 03-16-19, 07:38 AM.

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            • #36
              Actually this video helps describe some of the unusual triggering in some peoples designs. If The head generates a standing wave from the vibrational properties of the rest of the drum, the piezo can sometimes even end out not having any vibration to pick up at the node, thus a mis-shot trigger. If you can think of the drum head like this string, and your stick as the frequency generator based off where it is hitting, then this whole thing will make more sense when testing your drums!
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gr7KmTOrx0

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Myrk- View Post
                Just be aware that by putting the piezo off centre your positional sensing is compromised somewhat. The piezo relies off the timing between pulse widths to determine location, and if the head does not vibrate around the centre of the head the module will not be able to locate your hit as it can't detect the pulse timing frequency differences that occur from an edge hit that has a tighter/higher frequency. Your edge foam may also interfere with the detection also. Think of the drum head in sectional view, and it reacts just like a string. To apply the thinking to a drum head fully you just rotate said sectional string view on the axis of where the piezo is located, thus centre is best. Hard to explain, I guess maybe a video explanation with diagrams may help people understand why dual ply can sometimes cause double triggering but also resolve... but unfortunately no one out there is gunna have the detectional equipment to be able to know the best combination of materials, so would be more just an explanation as to why people have it rather than a solid way to avoid the issue when designing. It's these exact reasons why there is no solid "how to" when it comes to making cymbals and drums, because there are too many combinations of materials that interact differently and produce different results.

                My tests for instance showed that Santoprene rubber is the best strike surface for a rubber cymbal with the best vibrational properties available for the e-drum market, however most people are unable to find this material in small enough sizes as it is an industrial rubber product usually sold in huge scale, and that's just one material example.
                Good info, but in my case my module doesnt support positional sensing. So no issues with a side mounted trigger. But for others with Roland modules a central mounted piezo is the best.
                2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by mvdput View Post

                  I did not change the module settings at first. I changed the head to a 2-ply head with about the same tension. Immediately a lot more double triggering, even on the softer hits. Tightend the head a lot more and tweaked the settings in the module, but no result at all. Maybe the brand of 2-ply also makes a difference. I used a very cheap one that I was using on the bottom of my snare.
                  So I went back to the 1-ply head since that was my best result so far.



                  My first DIY trigger was the same as yours, although maybe the piezo size differs and the type and height of the foam. Since then I have been experimenting with different setups of the piezo/foam but not yet 100% satisfying. My first version with the piezo directly touches to the head (indeed upside down with the brass touching the head) gave too much double triggering which I could not avoid with module settings. But I think I need to go back to that setup again, since others (included Wronka) and 2Box Triggit (the external version) are doing the same thing.

                  What kind of foam did you use, what was the height of the foam and what is the size of your piezo?
                  The foam was from a sandblock, purchased at the local DIY shop. First peeled off the rough parts.
                  The height of the foam was ca. 20mm I gues...
                  Het piezo was 27mm

                  When I first mounted this, I had A LOT of double triggering.
                  Tweaking on the module did the job!
                  Ludwig Epic, Roland Mesh-heads, DIY Cymbals, Roland TD-9, EZdrummer2 + EZX

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Just a simple question....

                    Why is it that in a topic about trigering 20" low volume cymbals, the discussion is about triggering a DIY drum?
                    Brain: mega drum. 5 toms: DIY mesh head, side-mounted DIY triggers. Snare: 14" 682 head, DIY crossbar trigger. 2xDIY beaterless BD pedal. .Cymbals: Crash: 2x 16" brass: 2 zone. Ride: 20" brass: 2 zone. Hi-Hat: 14" 1 zone DIY Control pedal + Pearl H900 stand. + drum rack:

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Viperr View Post
                      Just a simple question....

                      Why is it that in a topic about trigering 20" low volume cymbals, the discussion is about triggering a DIY drum?
                      Yes that is true.... I started it about my low volume cymbal but was also working on my diy snare trigger so it all got a bit mixed up....
                      2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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                      • #41
                        Hi folks. I currently am triggering an 18inch Zildjian L80 with good effect. I'm using a clear plastic cymgard that I got with the trigger.

                        2 things can anyone give an online Link to where I could buy some more clear cymgard like this online. Also a link to the clear sticky sheets of plastic you all use to dampen your cymbals?

                        Thanks

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by JQ85 View Post
                          Hi folks. I currently am triggering an 18inch Zildjian L80 with good effect. I'm using a clear plastic cymgard that I got with the trigger.

                          2 things can anyone give an online Link to where I could buy some more clear cymgard like this online. Also a link to the clear sticky sheets of plastic you all use to dampen your cymbals?

                          Thanks
                          Do you have a photo of the clear plastic cymgard? I was looking for a clear version but good not find a good one.

                          For the dampening of the cymbals I used a 2mm clear PVC sheet. Like this -> https://kunststofshop.nl/pvc-zacht/t...-4834-10000108
                          It is 2 mm thick and I cut it into the preferred size and used clear double sided tape to stick it to my cymbal. But afterwards I removed all of it because it highly increased the noise of the stick impact.
                          2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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