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Triggering a 20inch Low Volume Ride cymbal (and having issues with it)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by sascha View Post
    I'm quite puzzled by your piezo setup there.
    IMO the sanding foam is way too big. If you'd inspect the resulting waveform on a scope and compare to one with the piezo glued to a, say, 1-2mm EDPM rubber or similar, you'd notice that your solution acts as a massive lowpass filter. Therefore, I suspect that tiny hits or fast sequences are swallowed. Is that the case or is there a need to increase sensitivity?
    (I'm also using Arborea cymbals, and for the HH I've just glued the 15mm piezos to 1.5mm EDPM, and it's super-efficient (2 as bow sensors, 1 in the cup on the opposite side for the 2nd zone detection, kind of a triangular setup)
    Unfortunately I have no scope to inspect the resulting waveform. Maybe the sanding foam is too big, but the first thing I try to dampen the cymbal was cut off a corner of the sanding foam that I had and used it on the 20 inch ride, which seemed to work right away. So I did not try any other sizes or other forms of dampening. With the sanding foam the border between a bow and bell sounds is just below the end of the bell, so that was quite nice. Also hitting hard on the bow did not trigger a bell sound.

    I do have some EDPM laying around so I can test that also. If it works equal to my sanding foam then that would probably a better option.

    I am using 20mm piezo's so those are more sensitive than yours anyway. Another issue is that I am using a 2Box module, which uses a piezo/switch setup for a 3-zone ride. This means that the bow/bell sound is coming from 1 piezo, based on the strength of the signal.

    I didn't notice any swallowing of tiny hits or fast sequences yet...
    2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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    • #17
      Originally posted by sascha View Post
      I'm quite puzzled by your piezo setup there.
      (I'm also using Arborea cymbals, and for the HH I've just glued the 15mm piezos to 1.5mm EDPM, and it's super-efficient (2 as bow sensors, 1 in the cup on the opposite side for the 2nd zone detection, kind of a triangular setup)
      I am wondering, are you still using the bottom cymbal of the hi hat or did you remove it? If you still use it, what did you do to prevent unwanted triggering from the wobbling bottom cymbal when playing half-open?
      2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

      Comment


      • #18
        I'm using the bottom hat as another e-crash here. First thought about using in on my hh setup but then decided against it, since I then needed to drill the hole wider for my new goedrum controller to fit, which would make the cymbal useless for anything else.
        I was expecting the controller to have a membrane pot, but since it's only a simple slider inside I'm not so sure about the sustainability of this setup... Maybe I implant a hall sensor instead later on, then the bottom hh would get a chance.
        gear: MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3, Goedrum HH controller), Triggera 10" splash
        band: http://theboardmusic.com

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        • #19
          So the goedrum controller is not the best choice?

          For the hall sensor I did mount it on the bottom of the foot plate of the hi hat pedal. That way you have much less issues from unwanted movements of the sensor during playing.

          I changed the sanding foam for 2 pieces of 1,5mm EDP rubber on top of each other on my 20 inch ride. It does give about the same effect so a much nicer solution
          2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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          • #20
            I have no idea whether the goedrum controller is long-time stable or not. But when I look at the cc value readout in Addictive Drums, it fluctuates a lot. I opened it and inspected the moving central plastic rod attached to the slider, and it seems there's too much play by default. I've fixed that but there are still occasional glitches and jumps which I think is the spring contact of the pot (a common problem). It would have been better if it were a membrane pot, at least for gigging drummers. It's certainly ok for home/hobby use, but far from what I'd call professional, to be honest.
            gear: MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3, Goedrum HH controller), Triggera 10" splash
            band: http://theboardmusic.com

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            • #21
              I read somewhere that the GoEdrum controller only supports 4 levels: closed, half-closed, half-open and open. Is that correct?
              2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

              Comment


              • #22
                They wrote that because their own module can't do more internally. But it's an analog slider, thus you have continuous resistance change.
                The only controller that sends discrete positions is the Yamaha HH, since it's a fixed resistor network.
                gear: MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3, Goedrum HH controller), Triggera 10" splash
                band: http://theboardmusic.com

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                • #23
                  Today I created an internal snare trigger with separate head and rim-piezo’s for my 2Box module. It doesn’t look so nice but it works very good.

                  I added the piezo directly against the mesh-head, no foam in between. The same like Wronka triggers and 2Box does. I used some foam to stick the piezo on and that is about it for the head. For the rim I used a tiny piece of 1,75mm Edpm rubber to put the piezo and and glued it to the inside of my snare about 10 cm away from my head-piezo. This gives me a very clear separation of the head and rim sounds. Something which I couldn’t achieve with my external 2Box Trigit trigger.

                  5EF919F7-9E9B-4A50-A82D-8C5D5441E327.jpeg
                  Attached Files
                  2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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                  • #24
                    Nice work!
                    Ludwig Epic, Roland Mesh-heads, DIY Cymbals, Roland TD-9, EZdrummer2 + EZX

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dreamdrummer View Post
                      Nice work!
                      Not 100% happy yet, still a little double triggering sometimes on the head, but the separation between the head and the rim is awesome. I used a high-density foam sponge that I bought on e-bay in China for the base to put the piezo on. Isolates like madness.
                      I am going to do some minor modifications in the next few days to see if I can get rid of the unwanted double triggering that sometimes happens on hard hits.
                      2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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                      • #26
                        I think a 2-ply head will do the job too...!

                        Or at least helps a bit to avoid double triggering ;-)
                        Ludwig Epic, Roland Mesh-heads, DIY Cymbals, Roland TD-9, EZdrummer2 + EZX

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Dreamdrummer View Post
                          I think a 2-ply head will do the job too...!

                          Or at least helps a bit to avoid double triggering ;-)
                          I read several forum-posts about single- and double-ply mesh heads regarding double triggering. Some say they moved from double- to single-ply to avoid double triggering, others say just the opposite.
                          I happen to have a cheap double ply meshhead on the bottom of my snare, so it is an easy test.
                          Will try that as the first step...
                          2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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                          • #28
                            Added a 2-ply mesh head to my 14” snare without changing the trigger settings. But immediately got a lot more double triggering. Turned up the mesh head tension to real tight, but still a lot of double triggering.
                            So in my case single-ply works a lot better to prevent double trigering.

                            Still doing modifications and changes to my diy snare trigger, but still not the result that I want.
                            I am almost in for buying a commercial internal trigger if I cannot get my diy right. But just for the thought of paying € 40-60 for a few components of less than €5,- still holds me back ;p
                            2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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                            • #29
                              One can't just judge from material price alone, it's time, measurement and long-term experience that adds up to commercial trigger costs.

                              Of course you could spend the difference of ~50€ on a cheap 2nd-hand scope, so that you know better what's going on... and this is something that I'd highly recommend for any DIY lab

                              gear: MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3, Goedrum HH controller), Triggera 10" splash
                              band: http://theboardmusic.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by sascha View Post
                                One can't just judge from material price alone, it's time, measurement and long-term experience that adds up to commercial trigger costs.

                                Of course you could spend the difference of ~50€ on a cheap 2nd-hand scope, so that you know better what's going on... and this is something that I'd highly recommend for any DIY lab
                                Of course, I am not counting all the time that I have spent on my diy project and I am well aware that commercial trigger companies have research costs etc. So my statement is a bit bold but in the end the product is still a fairly simple 5-component thing. And it is also a bit of a challenge to make my own diy internal side mounted better than the 2Box external triggers that I have.
                                2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

                                Comment

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