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Triggering a 20inch Low Volume Ride cymbal (and having issues with it)

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  • Triggering a 20inch Low Volume Ride cymbal (and having issues with it)

    I recently bought a set of Arborea Low Volume cymbals for use with my 2Box module. I have a 16" and 18" crash and a 20" ride.
    I have triggered the 16" and 18" cymbals with a 20mm piezo and a Myrk Membrane switch which is used for the edge signal and choke. To dampen the signal I used a 20mm rubber strip around the edge of each cymbal. Combined with doing a little tweaking with the trigger settings in the module, the 16" and 18" work fine.

    Now, I also have this 20" low volume ride which als is dampend with a 20mm rubber strip around the end.
    But playing this ride does give double triggering if the cymbal is hit with a normal force. Of course I tweaked the trigger settings in the module, but that did note gave the result I was hoping for.
    I also added a piece of 2mm transparent PVC to the bottom of the cymbal and later on only on the bottom of the bell. But doing so does increase the stick-noise to a much higher level and that is not preferred.
    I also added a variable resistor with a maximum of 100KOhm on the output wire of the piezo, but that also did not gave the expected result.

    I am now looking into trying some options with some high density foam between the piezo and the cymbal, to see if that resolves the double triggering.

    With a 20" cymbal the stick impact probably does generate much more vibrations then smaller size cymbals.

    Has anyone succesfully triggered a 20" low volume ride cymbal and what is the best way to do it?

    Here a picture of my kit with triggered cymbals: IMG_3847.jpg
    2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

  • #2
    Butyl rubber is probably one of the most dampening material out there.

    Id try a few strips of it under the cymbal to see if it kills extraneous vibrations. You might need to experiment with placement to get the best dampening.
    DTX700, A2E Dixon kit, Yamaha cymbals, FSR HH Kit Pix

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    • #3
      Is it the piezo or the edge switch that is causing the double triggering? There is a lost of flex at the edge which could acount for double triggering of the membrane switch. I am going to follow this since this is exact whiat I want to achieve eventually with my cymbals. Love the looks of them. Can you give specifics of the rubber trim you are using?

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      • #4
        Ohhh. I see there is no myrk trigger on the 20 in. Hmmm. Maybe more PVC to dampen the vibrations? Or some kind of foam or rubber isolating platform.

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        • #5
          I have an 18 L80 I'm triggering with very good results, using Jmans 3Zone stealth. I'm actually looking to buy the Aborrea 20 ride and 14 hats, how do you find them, and issues so far? The hi hats in particular really interest me how do you rate them?

          What type of triggers are you using for the ride, dual zone, single or tripple? I think single work fine for crash cymbals but for a tripple 3zone it's prob best to go with Jman or someone online. There was a lot of tweaking needed to get mine to perform correctly on mytd12m. Basically one input lead is the bow/edge, the other lead acts as a bell, so they're not linked. You then have to mess around with settings so there's no mistriggering. Thresholds, mask time, sensitivity.

          What I suggest is getting the bow correct first, as you play this most. For the bell decrease sensitivity and increase threshold and scan/mask time, this makes playing the bell quite deliberate like a real acoustic cymbal. Meaning for my bell to trigger properly I have to hit it with the shank of my stick rsther than tip to get a clean bell, make sense?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by perceval View Post
            Butyl rubber is probably one of the most dampening material out there.

            Id try a few strips of it under the cymbal to see if it kills extraneous vibrations. You might need to experiment with placement to get the best dampening.
            Yes, indeed. I am gonna spend some more hours this weekend experimenting with different types of dampening material on different locations/sizes
            2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Aka Wayne View Post
              Is it the piezo or the edge switch that is causing the double triggering? There is a lost of flex at the edge which could acount for double triggering of the membrane switch. I am going to follow this since this is exact whiat I want to achieve eventually with my cymbals. Love the looks of them. Can you give specifics of the rubber trim you are using?
              There is no Myrk trigger yet on the 20". Myrk does not have a 20" edge trigger, but I ordered the 18" and see what I can do with that on the 20" ride. So double triggering is only coming from the piezo.
              I do have the Myrk trigger on the 16" and 18" and that works like a charm.

              For the rubber trim I used this one: https://www.zamro.nl/product/30A02/u...art-2087-l-30m
              I did use a smaller version first, but that did not completely cover the Myrk trigger and gave less dampening.
              2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Aka Wayne View Post
                Ohhh. I see there is no myrk trigger on the 20 in. Hmmm. Maybe more PVC to dampen the vibrations? Or some kind of foam or rubber isolating platform.
                Using the PVC for dampening on the bottom of the cymbal I already tried. It sure gives good results with dampening the cymbal. I covered about 1/3 of the cymbal. But the problem I found with using PVC on the bottom is the huge increase of stick-noise and that is not what I want.
                2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JQ85 View Post
                  I have an 18 L80 I'm triggering with very good results, using Jmans 3Zone stealth. I'm actually looking to buy the Aborrea 20 ride and 14 hats, how do you find them, and issues so far? The hi hats in particular really interest me how do you rate them?

                  What type of triggers are you using for the ride, dual zone, single or tripple? I think single work fine for crash cymbals but for a tripple 3zone it's prob best to go with Jman or someone online. There was a lot of tweaking needed to get mine to perform correctly on mytd12m. Basically one input lead is the bow/edge, the other lead acts as a bell, so they're not linked. You then have to mess around with settings so there's no mistriggering. Thresholds, mask time, sensitivity.

                  What I suggest is getting the bow correct first, as you play this most. For the bell decrease sensitivity and increase threshold and scan/mask time, this makes playing the bell quite deliberate like a real acoustic cymbal. Meaning for my bell to trigger properly I have to hit it with the shank of my stick rsther than tip to get a clean bell, make sense?
                  First I used the Arborea cymbals without triggers and my headphone on for the rest of the drums and the music. That sort of works because I heard the sounds of the cymbals but was not ideal, I did miss the real sound. The natural sound of the Arborea's is ok compared to the price of the cymbals, but not something that I would want to listen too everytime. They are what they say they are, low volume cymbals but are made of copper instead of brass I think, so they sound more metal-like.

                  However, for triggering, these cymbals are good. The response and feeling is way better than every other rubber pad I ever tried. It is just like playing a real cymbal. Triggering the 16" and 18" crash works fine, I did have to do some tweakings with the triggers in the module and experiment with the dampening but now I only use the rubber trim on the 16" and a rubber trim plus half the bell is dampened with 2mm PVC on the 18 inch plus a 36KOhm resistor on the hot wire of the piezo on the 18 inch. But I think I can do the 18" with only the rubber trim and adjusting the trigger settings in the module.

                  The hi-hat is a different story, as a low volume hi-hat is ok, again compared to the price of it. But also not something that I want to listen to all the time.
                  If you want low volume cymbals that also sound like real cymbals, I think you should buy Agean low volume cymbals but their price is about 4x the price of the Arborea.
                  The hi-hat I only triggered the bow, no edge yet (waiting for the Myrk trigger to arrive) and no module level detection yet. I still need to add those to complete the hihat.

                  For the ride I am using only 1 piezo in the bell, that is how original 2Box cymbals work. And I am also gonna add the Myrk edge trigger. Because I have the 2Box Drumit 5, I need to stick to the 2Box way of triggering; piezo/switch on only 1 TRS output jack. With this setup I can get bow, bell and edge sounds but for other modules this works different.

                  My triggers just consist of a 20mm piezo for all the cymbals. But maybe I should use a smaller piezo for the 20" ride, as smaller piezo's are less sensitive.

                  Which module are you using?
                  2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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                  • #10
                    I have the Arborea LV 20" ride (the silver one) and sounds surprisingly good for the price. Also bought a L80 Zildjian pack. I decided to play the cymbals micked for a while but eventually will try to trigger'em maybe just for experimentation, but at the moment I really enjoy their acoustic sound but above all the awesome feel.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vhdrums View Post
                      I have the Arborea LV 20" ride (the silver one) and sounds surprisingly good for the price. Also bought a L80 Zildjian pack. I decided to play the cymbals micked for a while but eventually will try to trigger'em maybe just for experimentation, but at the moment I really enjoy their acoustic sound but above all the awesome feel.
                      Indeed, rubber cymbals will never accomplish this natural acoustic feel.
                      I did thought to mic them also, but decided I wanted more than one sound per cymbal and I am not too enthusiastic about it’s natural sound. I do play fully acoustic once per week at a different location so maybe I am a bit spoiled when I am sitting behind my kit at home and “miss” the sound of real cymbals.
                      2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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                      • #12
                        Yeah, I know that feeling. I got fed up on rubber cymbals but at home can't play regular acoustic cymbals, that's why I switched to low volume.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Today I did some more diy testing with my 20 inch Ride. I used a 25mm sanding foam Pilar to put the piezo on. It doesn’t look pretty but it sure dampens the signal very good. I didn’t had to do any major trigger settings in the module, it almost worked instantly and better, almost no double triggering and a good clear separation of the bow and bell (2Box uses 1 piezo for it).

                          Only thing that is left is to trigger the hihat better. It does trigger with the original 2Box pcb that I got from the original hihat, but playability is not yet good enough.

                          See the picture of my creation on my 20 inch ride cymbal
                          4342755F-DFD1-4445-A2CE-3CEF44CC00A9.jpeg

                          This is the sanding foam I used: https://www.karwei.nl/assortiment/ka...k320/p/B559984
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by mvdput; 02-28-19, 09:15 AM.
                          2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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                          • #14
                            Currently working on the hi hat. I removed the hi hat controller pcb from the original 2Box hi hat and added a piezo and a Myrk trigger and some extra dampening to my Arborea low volume hi hat and connected all the wires. The original PCB I added to the bottom of my foot plate together with a magnet that I bought.
                            It does work and I have a fully functional hi hat.

                            However, for some reason it does not work a smoothly as the original hi hat.
                            I already removed the bottom cymbal of the hi hat because when the hi hat was a little open, hitting the edge did also start to make the bottom cymbal move and it did hit the top cymbal which caused some unwanted double triggering. Removing the bottom cymbal already improved the playability,

                            Today I also received a few magnets with different strengths from N45, N48, N50 to test, because the magnet that I currently use I have no idea what it's strenght is, other than that it is strong. Magnets with a strenghts between N42 and N48 should probably be the best choice. But it also depends on the the distance between the magnet and the pcb.
                            2Box Drumit 5 on a Linko acoustic kit, converted from A to E with Remo Silentstroke heads, 2Box Trigit triggers, Arborea Low Volume cymbals with DIY triggers (work in progress).

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                            • #15
                              I'm quite puzzled by your piezo setup there.
                              IMO the sanding foam is way too big. If you'd inspect the resulting waveform on a scope and compare to one with the piezo glued to a, say, 1-2mm EDPM rubber or similar, you'd notice that your solution acts as a massive lowpass filter. Therefore, I suspect that tiny hits or fast sequences are swallowed. Is that the case or is there a need to increase sensitivity?
                              (I'm also using Arborea cymbals, and for the HH I've just glued the 15mm piezos to 1.5mm EDPM, and it's super-efficient (2 as bow sensors, 1 in the cup on the opposite side for the 2nd zone detection, kind of a triangular setup)
                              MarkDrum YES e-kit highly modified (DIY hall-sensor based hihat, low-volume trigger cymbals, 16" DIY kick, 12" DIY snare + tom 3), Triggera 10" splash
                              Gibraltar 9607NL-DP Legless Hi Hat, Intruder Double Pedal
                              Shure SE215 in-ears w. CustomArt silicone tips

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