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no hotspotting with this trigger setup

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  • #61
    Originally posted by sascha View Post
    Well, if it works with the Mimic, then you've got a winner there
    However, I think four 35mm piezos for the rim detection is overkill. I would try only two instead, on opposite sides, and having them wired up in series, not parallel. I would also try series connection for the three cones, if you're lucky then there's no hotspot at all then, since all voltages would even out each other (more or less). Of course one should try find this out with a scope, or at least record the raw waveform in a DAW.
    I have a dual-piezo setup in my 16" kick, mounted close to the rim left & right, and these capture the entire mesh evenly. In parallel, I could see two spikes on the scope or the waveform taking up a strange combination, depending on where I hit. With series wiring there is only one spike, which (theoretically) is more exponential but should still be sharp enough in its slew rate to make detection easy.
    Of course you have less voltage with series setups, unlike parallel addition. But piezos of this size are 'hot' anyway, maybe even too much at times.
    Hi Sascha,
    I will give a try to connect the piezos in series!! Also because I still did not fixed all the cables, so I still can try... I'll let you know!

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Agent Foam View Post
      Ok so have we finally found a way to sucessfully copy ATVs trigger System?

      From what I can tell with the specific system mentionend in this thread there are still hot spot issues. Why is that I wonder? ATV apparently managed to solve this issue. So maybe there is a difference in how they wire their system....

      Has anybody ever been willing to take their atv snare apart? Or where does that wiring diagram come from?


      So many questions.....Im glad I found my way back there! I would really love to build a diy ATV system myself (with proper shell sizes).
      Well, as you can see in the video, the hotspot is present only if you hit exactly on the top of the cones, but this is not a big issue because without positional sensing feature (in my case Mimic Pro) there is no reason to play close to the rim! It could be an issue if your module has this feature and you use to play a lot close to the rim...
      I don't own an ATV pad to disassemble and check the original wiring, anyway, I used that wiring diagram posted in the beginning and the results are in the video I posted before! Is great!! I really encourage you to make your own!!!
      In any case, I will give a try also to connect the piezos in series as Sascha suggested and I will see if there is any improvement!!
      I'll keep you informed!!

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      • #63
        Hi,

        Thanks for your reply!! Yes please keep us updated! I thought the whole point of this three cone trigger is to eliminate hotspots. I talked to someone who owns an ATV Snare and he confirmed that there is no hotspot even when directly hitting on top of a cone. If that werent the case a simple one-piezo trigger close to the rim would be enough too, right? (if its just all about avoiding to hit the cone)

        Thanks again for sharing your efforts with us!

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Agent Foam View Post
          Hi,

          Thanks for your reply!! Yes please keep us updated! I thought the whole point of this three cone trigger is to eliminate hotspots. I talked to someone who owns an ATV Snare and he confirmed that there is no hotspot even when directly hitting on top of a cone. If that werent the case a simple one-piezo trigger close to the rim would be enough too, right? (if its just all about avoiding to hit the cone)

          Thanks again for sharing your efforts with us!
          Hot spots could be module-specific in regards to a three-piezo design. I believe ATV's aD5 has triggering algorithms that minimize hot spots when hitting directly over a cone. The Mimic does not achieve this, as it wasn't designed for a three cone system. So it's possible that your "someone" has an aD5, whereas violaole is using a Mimic and that's the reason for the different observations.
          ATV aDrums & aD5, Pearl Mimic Pro & DIY, Agean R-series Silent Cymbals, Roland Handsonic HPD-20.

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          • #65
            He is using a roland td 11. So absolutely nothing special.....I thought it was common knowledge that ATV finally managed to elimimate hotspots....I could of course be mistaken as that is just knowledge I have from reading stuff and talking to people....I havent had the chance to test it myself ...has nobody ever done this? Using atv drums with a roland td Module? Im curious....

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            • #66
              Bad setting can increase hot spot, type of piezo and cone as well. I would not compare atv not the same parts used.

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              • #67
                Which is why it would be crucial to find out what piezo size they use and especially how they wire....maybe one day i'll buy an atv snare and try to find out.....

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                • #68
                  Anybody else having any luck with this design? I converted an acoustic snare. I have three head trigger cones and one piezo mounted on the shell. The rim trigger works great but the head triggers output is very low compared, even with the module sensitivity cranked. I don't know if the additional two cones are just dampening the head vibration too much or if there is a problem with my wiring.I wired it like this, based on eDrumMatt's schematic: All the negative poles head and rim to the sleeve.The positive poles of the head triggers together to the tip.The positive pole of the rim to the ring.Red = positive and Black = negative on Quartz triggers.
                  I've only tried it with a dual-layer Powerply head thus far.
                  Any input appreciated. Thanks!
                  Last edited by Rainking; 06-03-19, 01:13 PM.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Rainking View Post
                    Anybody else having any luck with this design? I converted an acoustic snare. I have three head trigger cones and one piezo mounted on the shell. The rim trigger works great but the head triggers output is very low compared, even with the module sensitivity cranked. I don't know if the additional two cones are just dampening the head vibration too much or if there is a problem with my wiring.I wired it like this, based on eDrumMatt's schematic: All the negative poles head and rim to the sleeve.The positive poles of the head triggers together to the tip.The positive pole of the rim to the ring.Red = positive and Black = negative on Quartz triggers.
                    I've only tried it with a dual-layer Powerply head thus far.
                    Any input appreciated. Thanks!
                    Check out some of the detail in this thread. I believe the consensus is that serial wiring for the head piezos is the way to go. Give that a shot and it may solve your issue.

                    FWIW - Jman wires his ISM6 triggers in serial for the head piezos.
                    Roland TD-30 Module | Superior Drummer 3 | Tama Superstar Hyper-Drive Maple A2E w/ R-Drums RTS II & RTB Triggers | ATV aD Cymbals | Tama HW & Pedals

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by rdubu View Post

                      Check out some of the detail in this thread. I believe the consensus is that serial wiring for the head piezos is the way to go. Give that a shot and it may solve your issue.

                      FWIW - Jman wires his ISM6 triggers in serial for the head piezos.
                      rdubu, thanks for your suggestions!
                      I would love to try series if I only knew how. I'm not too knowledgable about wiring and such. Could you kindly point me to a schematic or explain how to wire this up in series in my simplistic wiring language?
                      I tried Google but could not find anything on series in relation to drum triggers.
                      Thank you VERY much!

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                      • #71
                        So if you have the black and red wires on the piezo and they are connected to the same part of the piezo. By that I mean if the red goes to the centre, then it should go to the centre on all of them. So once you know this itís a matter of connecting red from one to black on the next and the same to the last one leaving you with a black from the first and a red from the last to connect to the module. That is connecting in series. Parallel is when all reds are connected together and all blacks connected together.
                        Roland TD30 module on TD20 kit SD3 with various kits. Pearl Masters Kit, Yamaha 9000RC original natural wood finish. Cymbals from Zildgian Pasite and Sabian. Loads of percussion bits. Cubase and Wavelab always current versions.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by mkok View Post
                          So if you have the black and red wires on the piezo and they are connected to the same part of the piezo. By that I mean if the red goes to the centre, then it should go to the centre on all of them. So once you know this itís a matter of connecting red from one to black on the next and the same to the last one leaving you with a black from the first and a red from the last to connect to the module. That is connecting in series. Parallel is when all reds are connected together and all blacks connected together.
                          Mkok, thanks for taking the time to explain this to me!
                          The only thing I am unclear about now is where to connect the two remaining wires onto the Jack socket? T,R or S?
                          And if I'm only wiring the head piezos in serial, what would the rim piezo wires connect to?
                          Thanks again!
                          Last edited by Rainking; 06-04-19, 09:23 AM.

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